Saturday, December 05, 2009

Reading Polybius


Polibius was a cultured Greek exiled in Italy, who became the friend/tutor of the Fabius and Scipio (pic) brothers. With their father still in life, they were adopted by two different senatorial families who had no male successors. Two other brothers were left to continue their biological family's line (but they died soon so their own family name disappeared). It appears that the Roman upper class was almost childless, which Polibius attributes to moral decay. He also mentions the sudden depopulation of his own Greece, and how it came suddenly upon them. From V. Day:
About the fate of the Roman upper class: Among European peoples, the Romans offer an especially useful example because they left masses of records, enabling later historians to determine what became of them. The evidence found in ancient texts implies that this class descended largely from people who had a decidedly northern European physical type, although that isn't something one reads in modern books about Roman history. In Rome, though, the upper class was always a tiny minority. Instead of protecting its interests, it allowed itself to wither away. Consider a bleak statistic. We know of about fifty patrician clans in the fifth century B.C., but by the time of Caesar, in the later first century B.C., only fourteen of these had survived. The decay continued in imperial times. We know of the families of nearly four hundred Roman senators in A.D. sixty-five, but, just one generation later, all trace of half of these families had vanished.
Polybius's carrier and History is parallel to Favius Josephus' The Jewish Wars, both dedicated to improve the image of their newly conquered peoples among the Romans. Both dedicate extraordinary effort to combat fellow historians. Polybius dedicates a third of his book to slander and to ridicule one Thimaeus.

12 comments:

MadIvan said...

The evidence found in ancient texts implies that this class descended largely from people who had a decidedly northern European physical type,

There no evidence for Roman upper class as being Scandinavian.

NONE!

Why Internet super-Nazis refuse to see ancient southern Europeans have greatness even if Julius Caesar and Aristotle not blond?

Nazis too much time in mother's basement, Yes? Original Nazis must embarassed over their ideological descendents! Horror.

Anonymous said...

This piece is quite provocative, in the sense of causing one to contemplate how-and why-it is that the upper classes fail to procreate.

If indeed it is true.

I encourage you to explore this theme some more. You might want to start with the work of one Volkmar Weiss, who has many interesting things to say on this subject (and others).

Anon.

J said...

I am doing as you said and really, Prof Weiss is worth studying. He is the first person I met who elaborates on La Griffe's theory of the smart fraction, and adds to it. (I consider that "networking effect" is an addition). WW writes:

"Highly intelligent people are networking, and the economic effect of networking is the square of the nodes of the network, i.e. in our case the square of the number of people involved (Koch, 2000). Korotayev, Malkov & Khaltourina (2006) found out that the dynamics of hyperbolic growth of world GDP can be described by a simple equation containing one quadratic term. We see no other solution than for this term to be identical with q2, where the root of q2 predicts for a population the percentage of highly gifted with an IQ above 123."

If so, the internet and blogging should be accelerating world economic development, but that this acceleration is not noticeable. Yet.

As we say here, the Messias is taking his time, but he is on his way.

Anonymous said...

Precisely.

Here is Weiss, reviewing Lynn's book IQ and the Wealth of Nations, for Amazon:

"There are three types of men: Men (with IQ above 123), who invent machines, men (with IQ above 104), who repair machines, and men, who use machines. In a country where there are not enough men to construct and to repair a bridge, sooner or later traffic by railway will break down. This is the message of this extraordinary book"

So,when we are asked how to lift the third world out of poverty, we shall say it is as "simple as one, two, three.

Anon.

J said...

He also writes: "Could be the turning point (in England already about 1850, in Germany three or four decades later) in differential fertility also be the turning point of the cycle of industrialized society? Could it be, that the rich because of their rising social density would be the first to regulate their numbers in a cyclic fashion? What does or could this mean for the Aristotelian cycle of political constitutions, for the future of democracy? What are the differences and the similarities of the industrialized society with the rise and fall of the Roman empire and the repeated cycles within China?"

He has also a most interesting comment on hemlock...

Anonymous said...

I believe you will also be interested in this:

The Basic Period of Individual Mental Speed (BIP), Underlying IQ

General cognitive ability, underlying IQ, is limited by the channel capacity of short-term memory. Mental power, that means the capacity C of short-term memory (measured in bits of information) is the product of the individual mental speed Ck of information processing (in bit/s), see the following paper by Lehrl and Fischer (1990), and the duration time D (in s) of information in short term working memory, see “Memory Span as the Quantum of Action of Thought” http://www.v-weiss.de/publ9-e.html .
Hence:
C (bit) = Ck(bit/s) x D (s)

1 BIP is the shortest possible time during which an individual can process 1 bit of information. Hence:

1BIP(ms)= 1000/ Ck(bit/1000ms)

According to the major gene theory of intelligence, the mean mental power C of the genotype with IQ 124 and higher is 140 bit, of the genotype with IQ below 105 is 70 bit, see “The Advent of a Molecular Genetics of General Intelligence” http://www.v-weiss.de/intellig.html


See: European Journal of Personality 4 (1990) 259-286 - FULL PAPER (388 kB).

Essentially, he is saying that the experience of time is quantised and the period is related to, and in fact determines,IQ. This is because the speed of processing information is a fundamental driver of mental ability, and is largely under genetic control.

Anon.

J said...

Yes, you can see in the stock exchange that some people "get" what is going on much before most and the react very rapidly. These people get very rich in surprisingly short time.

But the most mysterious issue is why intelligent people does not reproduce, like in Greece, Rome, medieval Italy, England, and now everywhere.

Anonymous said...

Just like in computers, processing speed is very important. There is a reason why we call people of low intelligence "slow". That intelligence has a physiological basis is also bad news for those who believe that intelligence is not inherited (and that therefore low IQ groups such as blacks can someday reach partity with whites, if only we spend enough $ on education, etc.) Physiological traits (height, skin color, etc.) are obviously highly hereditable - if IQ is one of those (and it is) then we are in big trouble (and we are).

Anonymous said...

Day said "northern European", not Scandanavian. The two are not the same. Even today in northern Italy it is common to see people with northern European (e.g. blue eyes, lighter colored hair) appearance (not surprising since Italy borders on Austria & Switz.) I'm not sure where this gets you - AFAIK, there are no studies that indicate that northern European types are any smarter or better than southern, but it's not impossible that Day is right - the people who inhabit a country today are often quite different than those who were there 2000 years ago.

As for the continuation of the great Roman clans, I'd say that they were quite durable - how many American or European families have remained at the top of their society for 400 years? In many cases, the decay is quite rapid - the children or grandchildren of great men are often dissolute.

Eshenberg said...

Sveiki!
J..... "...and now everywhere."
Yes,But Caucasoid and Mongoloid Israeli...... fertility above 2.1!
Ano... 8:49 PM..... "...blacks can someday reach partity with whites,..."
They can ,they only need marry ethnic European,East Asian or Indian upper class person,and then they child must go the same pattern and You have "Negroid" almost the same level;)

J said...

Agree that the great
Roman families (clans) were durable, more than any family of our times. They were based on land ownership, in an agricultural society, which was less dynamic than ours. Nowaday we have almost no "dynasties" lasting more than 50 - 60 years.

Anonymous said...

Intelligent, dynamic men keep making the same mistake: falling for pretty but not very intelligent women, and marrying them. The children, unsurprisingly, suffer the dual disadvantage of IQ "regression to the mean" (which tends to happen anyway) and inheriting their mother's genes for intelligence.

The only possible solution (apart from blind luck) is to have very large families, thus increasing the prospects that at least somebody competent will arise, and who can carry on the family name, reputation and business. But few want to have more than a small family nowadays.

Therefor, as in everything else, selfishness is the architect of its own misfortune.

Anon.