Spanish demography makes it imperative that people retire older. Today, the retirement age in Greece is 63 and in Spain 65. The proposal to make it 67 is provoking street demonstrations (pic.: Barcelona). I see it as a sign of national decadence. Europeans refuse to work, to study Maths, to serve in the army, to have children. Reality's judgment will be fast and inexorable.
25 comments:
People should retiring at ealrier ages. Unemployment is very high among the younger age groups in many european countries and many can't even get work experience. Automation means the job pool is being reduced at a rate that can only increase.
General strike in Greece today also. For the last century , politicians have played the game of ever expanding social benefits and it has been a popular one - who's not in favor of getting free ice cream? As long as the population and economy were expanding, the game could go on, the cow could be milked a little more each year to make more free ice cream. But at some point the cow cannot be milked any more. Those who are enjoying the party don't want it to stop, even now when it's clear that it can't go on. Telling people they are going to get less, not more, is not a recipe for popularity for a politician. But it must stop - every conceivable source of taxation and borrowing has already been tapped and at some point becomes counterproductive - if you raise tax rates more, you actually reduce total revenues (because people simply do less of the taxed activity in order not to pay the tax). The crowds can scream and yell like spoiled children having a tantrum, but there is no more ice cream to give them. At one time they could raise the red flag and seize the cow, but now they know that is a dead end - they don't know how to take care of a cow, how to milk it themselves, how to make ice cream. But still they march - the party must go on as before! The music must not stop! We demand it! We demand more ice cream!
K
Three million public employees are striking in Greece. How many public employees are in that small country? Apparently less that 30% of the work force is employed in the private - productive sector. What did they think? Maybe they felt that the Germans will keep subsidizing them forever?
From wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece#Economy
The Greek labor force totals 4.9 million....
Immigrants make up nearly one-fifth of the work force, occupied mainly in agricultural and construction work.
Soooo, we know that Greece has a workforce of 5m, and that one-fifth (1m) is composed of immigrants. This leaves 4m native workers left. Of the remaining workers three out of four work for the state.
This actually sounds like the United States. Most of the workers in ag and construction are illegals, and the agriculture sector is subsidized by the state.
America's public sector workers aren't striking, but the country did elect Obama.
As in Argentina, I think there was a lot of magical thinking going on - they were going to lift themselves into the air by pulling up on their own shoe laces. Really there was no long term or big picture planning going on at all - they were just improvising day to day and hoping that it would all somehow work out. Even now, that's what the strikers are saying - somebody, anybody (they don't know who and they don't care who - the "Government" or "the rich") should pay for their cushy lifestyle to continue.
K
J, look at this page on wiki showing GDP per hour worked in the present and in 1950.
Look where Venezuela ranks then and now. I'm shocked Venezuela even made the list in 2009.
The figures are given in "international dollars", so be careful about making conversions.
Thanks Ronduck. As I wrote many times, American defeatism is excessive, the United States still leads the world by a large margin. Thanks for the shocking statistics about Greece, three out of four working persons are government employees! I wonder how long Germany is willing to support Greece, a country that has no industry except tourism (manned by illegal immigrants). I cant imagine a viable country where 3/4 of the workforce is busy administering itself and the 1/4 that is actually trying to produce something. I think that in Israel also we may have more people regulating industry than people actually working in the industry.
American defeatism is excessive,
No, it isn't excessive. A large minority of the Whites in this country are batshit crazy, and they cooperate with the coloreds to push their agenda through.
J, look at this post by Karl Denninger.
US statistics are now as fraudulent as the ones coming out of China.
"The government and the EU must understand the crisis must be paid by the rich." - Spyros Papaspyros president of ADEDY, an umbrella union for public-sector workers.
Preferably the rich of the EU, since Greece doesn't have that many rich and the few that they have are not in the habit of paying taxes. Why the rich of the EU MUST do this is not clear to me, but I suppose it's for the same reason that my little children said we HAVE to go to the playground. If you say it loudly enough and over and over again and stomp and cry, the grownups (the EU) might give in to you.
K
The Germans and French may have consented to pay if it was Belgium or Denmark that was in trouble. Nobody asked the Greeks to join anyway, they and the Spanish joined to forestall endless coups and benefit from the common market for labour. Their farmers grew fat and lazy through subsidies from the CAP, they earn money by setting land aside and thus not challenging the farm lobbies of the rich countries. Although it is too late for British fishermen, some among them may take quite satisfaction in seeing the end of the Spanish brigands. If one is a poor cousin, one would do well to shut up and eat whats put on the table.
When I was last in Barcelona,not so long ago, there was a huge gay pride march through the city in daylight with many entirely naked participants.
Fortunately, I was attending a meeting and had only to suffer through the story, and numerous digital images, and not the actual event (which shut down part of the city).
In case you think this is off-topic, (and I am neutral about gays providing it is not "in my face"), my point is that the people of Barcelona seemed to have no objection to children in the streets being exposed to this, or members of the public, or tourists who might not share the opinions of the marchers and might want to respect the norms of public decency.
What you have in Europe is a breakdown of community morality, replaced by an atomised sense of infinite entitlement, and which is the common theme with the collapse in the work ethic underlying the bankrupties in these southern European countries.
Maybe the highly intelligent and deeply disciplined can cope with too much freedom, but not the current population of Europe. The only thing the Europeans are winning now is the battle for extintion.
Anon.
American statistics are tampered with? Welcome to the club.
Please note that Soros and the rest of the world is speculating against the Euro. It may collapse.
Even more irony - the same bankers (Goldman) that sold Greece the phony currency swaps that allowed them to borrow off the books are now speculating against Greek bonds. I worked in NY for years and I have experience with these types. There is a certain breed of businessman who is willing to go to the very edge of the law (without any consideration at all for morality). As far as he is concerned, it is up to the government to make things legal or illegal and if it is not illegal, then who is to say what is moral? The government is generally at least one step behind such people - by the time the government catches on to their scheme and prohibits it, they have made a fortune and are on to the next scheme.
Germany's leaders are in a bad situation. On the one hand, supporting Greece is very unpopular with German voters who see them (rightly) as freeloaders. On the other hand, the whole reason for German prosperity is the export driven economy, which the Euro greatly facilitates. If Greece (and Spain and Italy) were to pull out of the Euro (which they should) then German exports would fall greatly because Greeks could no longer afford to buy as many Mercedes once they were priced in millions of drachmas or lira. German exports are as undervalued as Chinese but the undervalue is disguised INSIDE the Euro zone.
K
As for what Anon said, I agree that there is a certain "end of days" quality to modern culture - men marry men and raise families, sex is divorced from reproduction, etc. Walls that stood in every culture on earth for the last 5,000 years at least, have been breached. It's not at all clear that such a free for all can be sustained indefinitely (in fact its pretty clear that it can't) or that (given that the future belongs to those who reproduce) those who inherit this world will WANT to sustain it in this way. I'm guessing that future history books (and history is written by the victors) will view our culture in the same (negative) way as we view late Roman culture and that what replaces our culture will be much more puritanical in the same way that early Christianity was.
K
Anon said...
In case you think this is off-topic, (and I am neutral about gays providing it is not "in my face"), my point is that the people of Barcelona seemed to have no objection to children in the streets being exposed to this,
What makes you think that the Spaniards have any children to observe the gay pride parade? If you were in a liberal part of Spain then this is even more true.
Sadly, you are right.
But happily, you are right wing.
Anon.
what replaces our culture will be much more puritanical
Maybe not. Maybe a technical solution will be found, like artifical wombs, which in fact already exist. We are so much wealthier than the Greeks and the Romans.
AFAIK, it's not possible to carry a child to term in an artificial womb yet, but it's entirely possible (and frequently done) to rent a womb from say an Indian woman. But I don't see this as a solution to the fertility problem. Replacement fertility is 2.3 children (to account for mortality between birth and childbearing age. The actual rate in some countries is more like 1.3. Every woman would have to have 1 more child, but in fact only a small % would want to (or could afford to) rent-a-womb. Meanwhile the descendants of those 2,000 Satmars will have no qualms about making lots more little Satmars with haredi values (or lack of values).
K
Rent-a-womb is, in my humble opinion, the only way out for Europe.
This is is why the PC crowd are so against it.
Of course, it is not easy, and will require govt money (what doesn't, nowadays)but it is at least possible.
It also poses a series of interesting questions as to the type of designer kids and who decides what sort of kids to have.
Furthermore, they will need to be brought up in the European equivalent of the Kibbutz, and in their millions.
The left wing extinctionists will go ape.
Anon.
Such Brave New World science fiction outcomes are unlikely. Children need to be brought by their parents. especially their mother and not by institutions - this is the model that has been programmed in our mammalian DNA for millions of years - even a dog knows this instinctively. Governments usually do a horrible job with those who really need institutionalization so trusting them with the upbringing of millions is a recipe for large scale abuse and disaster.
K
I don't doubt the best upbringing for a child is with a conventional family, with both biological parents stably married, and lots of siblings.
But we are talking last resort here to save Europe, in the same way the zoo people try to salvage a precarious species.
I still believe it will go that way; but some women will have their own babies via a surrogate womb, and still bring them up.
However, to avoid a demographic meltdown, extreme measures will be needed. It does not mean they are welcome. Before this, I would favour a heavy combination of fiscal carrot and stick.
But this won't happen, which leaves the 'one minute to zero' option.
Anon.
Isn't much simpler just to replace your population with the millions of Muslims and Africans who are literally dying to get into Europe? I realize this will result in the destruction of European culture as we know it, but I don't see the national will to take extreme measures to resist it as you propose. By the time that will is mustered (when people realize that the entire liberal structure that they have constructed, starting with the Reformation and ending with extreme tolerance for everything, is in danger of complete collapse ) it will be too late to do anything about it - the Europeans will be minorities in their own countries. The Roman empire went in a few short generations from feeding Christians to the lions to making Christianity the exclusive state religion and persecuting all others. Now France acts to prohibit the burka and Switzerland the minaret - how long before the same go from being prohibited to being obligatory? Keep in mind that there are many in Europe that see humans as environmentally destructive, so a reduction in population (even the extinction of humans) would be seen by them as something to be welcomed, no less resisted by extreme measures.
K
You are right up to a point. But you represent here the views of only the European "intellectual elite" (actually a schizoid collection of the alternatively frightened and the recklessly selfish, all suckered up by their 'education' to believe in a fantastically unrealistic utopia of brotherly love).
The lumpen proletariat doesn't agree with any of this, doesn't read anything and doesn't like immigrants.
The 'elite' are going to wake up sooner or later when their decadence becomes intolerable to large segments of Islamic Europe (and who can blame them, in this case), and the proles are going to react violently when their personal space is invaded by a totally foreign culture.
Then sit back, open the bag of popcorn and enjoy the show of a lifetime.
Anon.
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