I dont know, but the Communists succeeded in instilling in me a lasting sense of achievement and pride.
BTW, the communists - within a social democratic front palatable to the Germans - continue to rule Hungary. In the end, Hungarians (like East Germans) got used to Communism and have fond memories of its job security, social health services, party organized picnics and street demonstrations.
If I remember correctly, at the time of the fall of the Berlin Wall East Germany had a fertility rate of 0.8 children per woman. Bear in mind this is hearsay since I don't have a link to back up my assertion.
Related to this, but I have a 1998 IBM hard drive rotting away in the storage area of my station wagon that has the words "made in Hungary" on its face. The Hungarians can do highly skilled technical work under the direction of others, but as far as I know the Hungarians don't export anything complex to the rest of the world on their own initiative.
In fact, to further my point that the Hungarians are technically capable Hungary runs a massive nuclear power plant near a town named Paks (link). According to the wiki article on the plant recent polls in Hungary report that 70% of Hungarians support the plant being refurbished and kept in service. The Hungarians support the older form of leftism, apparently environmentalism hasn't made it here yet.
Hungarians are a mixed lot, with high percentage of ethnic Germans, called Donau Schwabs, and Slavs (rusins). They are less talented than neighboring Austrians, but they are far above the Balcans. Dont forget it is a small nation, like 9 million people, they have no well known companies like Nokia of the Finns.
They are also missing most of their Jews, who were the the leaders in most economic and academic sectors before the war. Plus as you have pointed out, there is lingering Communist influence - what the Germans call "Mauer im Kopf" - the [Berlin] Wall in your head - the Communist mentality that the blade of grass that sticks its head up the highest gets chopped off first.
As we have discussed here before, a nation with a population that is only average or slightly below in intelligence can still be very successful if they have a core of 130+ IQ geniuses at the top to direct them. Building disk drives is one thing - working out the theoretical physics that makes them possible is another. Hungary without Jews has the former but not the latter - where are the modern Hungarian Teller, von Neumann, Szilard, etc.
They are less talented than neighboring Austrians,
According to this wiki page Hungary has a national IQ of 99 and Austria has been rated at 102 and 100, so according to to the book there is at most a three point gap between the two countries.
Do you think that the estimate for Hungary is wrong or do you think Hungary is lacking something culturally that prevents it from succeeding?
Or am I being unduly pessimistic and Hungary is succeeding?
Hungary's most successful exports have been people, starting with Attila that Hun, and more recently the others mentioned by K; Szilard (the nuclear chain reaction), Erdos (mildly eccentric mathematician), von Neumann (alleged to be one of the smartest men ever to have lived), Teller (of course), Soros (of reflexivity fame, and J's hero and role model).
Koko says, "Congolese emigres are even smarter, but somehow, we have been glossed over".
In the US there is an "affirmative action" regime that gives preference in college admissions to "African-Americans" - this was intended as a sort of crude reparations for past discrimination of the slave descendants from the American South. The funny thing is, increasingly the "affirmative action" slots go not to the native blacks but to the children of immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean (such as Barack Obama, Colin Powell, etc.) There is self - selection among immigrants - the ones that leave their homes are the most ambitious, especially for their children and the immigrants tend to have more intact families than American blacks, the majority of whom are raised in single parent homes. Cultural attitudes are also different (American blacks who excel academically are accused of "acting white" and shunned by their peers). Why the child of a Nigerian immigrant should have preference over the child of say an Indian immigrant in college admissions is not at all clear to me, but that's racial politics in America.
It was very touching that Teller lived to see the end of the Cold War and was actually honored in his lifetime by the now Western re-oriented government of Hungary, no longer a hated capitalist's son or a Jew or imperialist enemy but reclaimed as a native son. He received a medal from the Hungarian government, rated one of the most famous Hungarians, etc. When he accepted the medal, he gave a speech in Hungarian and the Hungarians listening proudly took note that after 70 years away (yes, 70) his Hungarian was still fluent and unaccented.
Yesterday on the radio I heard something about the author Pearl S. Buck, who had been born and raised in China (her parents were Christian missionaries - the old line Protestant missionaries actually played a major constructive role in bringing modernity to China). Of course she left when the Communists seized power. Near the end of her life, Nixon's reopening with China began and it was her fondest wish to see her birthplace, the graves of her parents, etc. But at that point Madame Mao was still in power and she arranged a campaign of denunciation in the Chinese press which ensured that she would not be included in Nixon's delegation. Buck died shortly after and never did see China again. I guess the secret is to live long enough (Buck died at 80 - had she lived to Teller's 95 she surely would have seen China again, maybe even been honored there.
13 comments:
Előre!
What is a full belly compared to strengthening the friendship of peoples and protecting the honor of the red tie?
K
I was awarded a red tie!
Jews are terrible managers. They eventually ruin everything they manage...like the American economy.
I was awarded a red tie!
Was this like the boy scouts? Did you have to complete something to get this, like a merit badge?
I dont know, but the Communists succeeded in instilling in me a lasting sense of achievement and pride.
BTW, the communists - within a social democratic front palatable to the Germans - continue to rule Hungary. In the end, Hungarians (like East Germans) got used to Communism and have fond memories of its job security, social health services, party organized picnics and street demonstrations.
If I remember correctly, at the time of the fall of the Berlin Wall East Germany had a fertility rate of 0.8 children per woman. Bear in mind this is hearsay since I don't have a link to back up my assertion.
Related to this, but I have a 1998 IBM hard drive rotting away in the storage area of my station wagon that has the words "made in Hungary" on its face. The Hungarians can do highly skilled technical work under the direction of others, but as far as I know the Hungarians don't export anything complex to the rest of the world on their own initiative.
In fact, to further my point that the Hungarians are technically capable Hungary runs a massive nuclear power plant near a town named Paks (link). According to the wiki article on the plant recent polls in Hungary report that 70% of Hungarians support the plant being refurbished and kept in service. The Hungarians support the older form of leftism, apparently environmentalism hasn't made it here yet.
Hungarians are a mixed lot, with high percentage of ethnic Germans, called Donau Schwabs, and Slavs (rusins). They are less talented than neighboring Austrians, but they are far above the Balcans. Dont forget it is a small nation, like 9 million people, they have no well known companies like Nokia of the Finns.
They are also missing most of their Jews, who were the the leaders in most economic and academic sectors before the war. Plus as you have pointed out, there is lingering Communist influence - what the Germans call "Mauer im Kopf" - the [Berlin] Wall in your head - the Communist mentality that the blade of grass that sticks its head up the highest gets chopped off first.
As we have discussed here before, a nation with a population that is only average or slightly below in intelligence can still be very successful if they have a core of 130+ IQ geniuses at the top to direct them. Building disk drives is one thing - working out the theoretical physics that makes them possible is another. Hungary without Jews has the former but not the latter - where are the modern Hungarian Teller, von Neumann, Szilard, etc.
K
They are less talented than neighboring Austrians,
According to this wiki page Hungary has a national IQ of 99 and Austria has been rated at 102 and 100, so according to to the book there is at most a three point gap between the two countries.
Do you think that the estimate for Hungary is wrong or do you think Hungary is lacking something culturally that prevents it from succeeding?
Or am I being unduly pessimistic and Hungary is succeeding?
Hungary's most successful exports have been people, starting with Attila that Hun, and more recently the others mentioned by K; Szilard (the nuclear chain reaction), Erdos (mildly eccentric mathematician), von Neumann (alleged to be one of the smartest men ever to have lived), Teller (of course), Soros (of reflexivity fame, and J's hero and role model).
Koko says, "Congolese emigres are even smarter, but somehow, we have been glossed over".
Anon.
In the US there is an "affirmative action" regime that gives preference in college admissions to "African-Americans" - this was intended as a sort of crude reparations for past discrimination of the slave descendants from the American South. The funny thing is, increasingly the "affirmative action" slots go not to the native blacks but to the children of immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean (such as Barack Obama, Colin Powell, etc.) There is self - selection among immigrants - the ones that leave their homes are the most ambitious, especially for their children and the immigrants tend to have more intact families than American blacks, the majority of whom are raised in single parent homes. Cultural attitudes are also different (American blacks who excel academically are accused of "acting white" and shunned by their peers). Why the child of a Nigerian immigrant should have preference over the child of say an Indian immigrant in college admissions is not at all clear to me, but that's racial politics in America.
K
It was very touching that Teller lived to see the end of the Cold War and was actually honored in his lifetime by the now Western re-oriented government of Hungary, no longer a hated capitalist's son or a Jew or imperialist enemy but reclaimed as a native son. He received a medal from the Hungarian government, rated one of the most famous Hungarians, etc. When he accepted the medal, he gave a speech in Hungarian and the Hungarians listening proudly took note that after 70 years away (yes, 70) his Hungarian was still fluent and unaccented.
Yesterday on the radio I heard something about the author Pearl S. Buck, who had been born and raised in China (her parents were Christian missionaries - the old line Protestant missionaries actually played a major constructive role in bringing modernity to China). Of course she left when the Communists seized power. Near the end of her life, Nixon's reopening with China began and it was her fondest wish to see her birthplace, the graves of her parents, etc. But at that point Madame Mao was still in power and she arranged a campaign of denunciation in the Chinese press which ensured that she would not be included in Nixon's delegation. Buck died shortly after and never did see China again. I guess the secret is to live long enough (Buck died at 80 - had she lived to Teller's 95 she surely would have seen China again, maybe even been honored there.
K
If one lives long enough, can even meet his grand-grand children.
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