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Where's that? Bar-Ilan?
Wow - overwhelmingly men. In the US, engineering is still male dominated but not 10:1 or more - in the US it is now 20% women. Overall for all higher ed, there are more women than men.K
Is it bad that there are more boys ready to study engineering than girls? This class includes 4 Israeli Arab students (not in the pic) and 3 females (only one in the pic). As you see, informality rules. Some are outside on the grass preparing the coming exams or in the cola machine, others are talking in class or whatever. No dress code. I see many Muslim girls in "burka" and Ethiopians studying nursing or social sciences.
I am not one for "affirmative action" but I think overall women should be part of the workforce in whatever profession they choose for themselves. I can understand that engineering is more attractive to men but some % of women will choose it. K
Should they choose it, they are welcome. No affirmative action at Engineering that I know of, mostly because there are no students who want to study engineering and they cannot. I know of many government organizations and private enterprises clamoring for young engineers, but there are few takers. Also the salaries are not very attractive. Onthe other hand, there are much more candidates in Medicine than places, and the competition is ferocious. In that area there is secret affirmative action, but mostly for Ethiopian Jews and Muslim Arabs. There are generous scholarships available for these people, including paid tutors, but there are almost no candidates. There are search programs in secondary schools to identify Ethiopians and Arabs with potential, and to lead them to the University.
The same goes on here with blacks but with very limited success. If Ashkenazi Jewish IQ is 1 SD (15 ponts) higher than average European or Sephardi and black/Arab IQ is 1 SD (15 points) lower, and we say that 140 is a suitable IQ for being a physician, then purely as a matter of statistics (and absent AA), Ashkenazim will be over-represented by a factor of 6 vs. their prevalence in the general population and black/Arabs will under represented by the same factor (or a factor of 36 vs. Ashkenazim). So for every 100 suitable European or Sephardi candidates you would have 600 Ashkenazi candidates and 16 suitable blacks (assuming equal populations). Because the Jews are only a small % of the total US population, they instead amount to "only" maybe 25 or 30% of top professions instead. And because blacks are also a minority, the number of blacks at the intellectual heights is vanishingly small. When my daughter was awarded her special "genius" award at Johns Hopkins University (to qualify you must take the college admissions SAT test at age 12 and score at the 95th percentile for high school seniors (above 700 out of 800) - no Affirmative Action element at all) out of several hundred winners there were exactly zero blacks. Not one. But this was for a very high filter (JHU estimates about 1 in 10,000 students score at this level). Instead it was about 50/50 whites and Asians. Can't say how many of the whites were Jewish but a fair #.Here is a photo from the 2006 awards (not my daughter's year). http://cty.jhu.edu/bin/n/v/Martin060617CTY190.jpgIn case you are wondering, the darker skinned children are all South Asians (Indians). This photo represents what top University and medical school enrollment in the US would look like absent AA. The reality is shockingly different.K
140 is too high for a physician.People with this IQ will be overcome with a sense of boredom and futility; unless they immerse themselves in research, that is.Even then, the hassle of trying to compete for scarce research funds is demoralizing, time consuming and often pointless, especially if one is unlucky enough to be genuinely creative and too far ahead of their time.Anon.
It matters only slightly if you set the bar at 130 (where blacks will be "underrepresented" by a factor of 16 vs. Ashkenazim or 140 (where the factor is 36) or 160 (like the kids in the picture, where the factor is maybe 4000 to 1, or effectively infinite). The point is that the American "affirmative action" regime expects proportional representation - if blacks are 12% of the general population, they should be 12% of the enrollment in your med school, even if the proportions in the qualified applicant pool are vastly different. It's possible that 140 is "too high" for a GP but for a specialist in a complex field, even if he is not a researcher, it is not.K
I get the point about the progressively differential representation at progressively higher IQ thresholds, and that the effect starts to be obvious at relatively low increments above the 100 median, (or lower, actually). Curiously, there seems to be less demand for AA to work in reverse, ie forcing high-achievers from certain non-favored ethnic groups into low-cognitive occupations. But there is an inevitable sense that it must, to some extent, because those denied admission simply because they are non-minority, are on average forced to pursue lower cognitive opportunities.Anon.
K, If the pic reflects the future, well, it may be better than the past. Asians and Indians never did anything bad to the Jews. On the contrary, we always did well among them.
J, the picture does not represent the actual distribution of young Americans (which are almost 1/2 black and Hispanic) but rather the distribution of future PhDs at top science labs, Nobel prize winners, Field Medal winners, etc. (already a past alum of this group has won the Field Medal). Any science lab today in America looks as Chinese/Asian as this picture. The problem will be (and this is starting to happen) that these people will go back to (or move to, since many were born here even if almost all of their parents were not) China or India when they get their degrees and then we will be well and truly screwed - to the extent that the US has kept up with the world in education (which is not very much) it is because of these children of immigrants (and because of the children of Jewish immigrants before that). K
The other thing is that anti-Semitism requires some critical mass. Before the large scale E. European Jewish immigration to America in the last 19th century, America was relatively free of discrimination against the small Jewish minority. When Jews appeared in large #'s and began competing with the native population for resources, anti-Semitism increased greatly. China and India never had enough Jews to be worth worrying about.K
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