When I was in Kaifeng I searched for Jewish descendants and the authorities arranged for me to meet several. Like many before me, I too asked myself what was the connection of these Chinese people to the Jewish people, and if it was not all a hoax invented to promote Jewish tourism and investments, as well as, a way to acquire a privileged ethnic minority status in China's Communist regime.
My conclusions were that definitely there was an element of faking it in the Yuotai (Yehuda) minority, but it well could be because they had no opportunity at all to learn about Judaism and how Jewish descendants that they purported to be should behave. Many full-blood Russian Jews emerging after 70 years of Soviet rule wsere in the very same situation. The Israeli Embassy in Moscow had to train functionnaires able to recognize bona-fide Jewish descendants from pure, unadulterated Russian goys. They asked for Yiddish expression used by the grandmother, special behaviour on Jewish festivities (that they didnt what it was) or old family photographs and so on.
On the other hand, the Yutay are a recognized ethnic minority living in the Muslim (market) quarter of old Kaifeng, where all Western communities had been living for centuries - eating lamb and not pig, enjoying privileges such as to be allowed more than one child, and according to Prof. Xun Shu, also receiving State salaries. Also there was the fact that Marco Polo and other early travellers had written that there were many Jews that had settled in China, and the Jesuit Ricci's description of his meeting with Kaifeng Jews in Beijing, which I believe - is authentic.
Now I have read Dr Xun Shu's essay that he calls the whole Kaifeng Jew business a hoax perpetrated by Westerners (like Ricci) who had some interest in the existence of Chinese Jews, and then, by some Chinese who profited by selling fake manuscripts to eager missionaries.
Although I was one of the first Jews living in Kaifeng after China's opening, I could never form a firm opinion about the Youtay, but one thing is for sure: like the Falasha Jews of Ethiopia, here we a group of clans that may have or not some genetic link to the historic Hebrew nation, but they did spend the last generations considered as Jews by their Muslim and Christian neighbors. They dont pretend to be Jews, what they say is that they are Jewish descendants, and so they believe, so in my opinion, the issue of their being "real" or "fake" is irrelevant - as it is now they want to be Jews. We did not investigate if some other Jewish communities are genetically Hebrew and we do accept converts and always did (like Ruth the Moabite). So let them come to Israel; they will make us stronger, not weaker.
27 comments:
I'll repeat what I said before. The saddest words are "what might have been". 6 million unquestionable pure blooded, highly intelligent Ashkenazi Yidn were consumed in the fires of Auschwitz, etc. and now Israel must scour the globe for the floor sweepings of Judaism. What went up the chimney at Auschwitz in one day beats (both in number and in quality) all the ignorant "Falashas" that they can round up from African villages in a lifetime. And Justice Frankfurter would not lift a finger to help. The railways could have been bombed, the crematoria bombed, but instead they flew right over and bombed oil refineries and such, stopping only to take pictures (in some of the aerial photos you can see people waiting in line to go to the gas chambers. So sad. So sad.
K
Some days 14000 Hungarian Jews arrived (and departed) to Auschwitz. In six weeks of summer 1944 Hungary's Jews disappeared. This time, we shall save ourselves.
My impression was that the Kaifeng Jews, and various other oriental Jewish communities, some extant and some long forgotten, were likely founded by Jewish merchants who settled in distant areas and took local wives. These communities are genetically linked to the larger Jewish community. But the Ethiopian Jews I understood to be descended from Judaizing Christians who, because of social isolation and long stretches of time, eventually forgot their origins and came to believe that they had been Jews all along. This community is not genetically linked to the larger Jewish community, but arguably has a better claim on Jewishness...
K,
"Pure-blooded" in relation to the ancient Hebrews? There is no such thing. We don't know for sure the genetic profile of the pre-Hellenistic ancient Hebrew populations, but it is highly unlikely that they would fall where Ashkenazim do in Behar's or Atzmon's or Need's (Goldstein lab) PCA plots or show the same ancestral components in the ADMIXTURE analysis. There are clear signs of European admixture in Ashkenazim and Sephardim, albeit likely southern European and probably ancient.
Anonymous,
Western China (such as the old capital Kaifeng) has relatively large mixture of Western merchants/settlers. The people living in the old market neighborhood look somewhat Western (imagine Tajik, not Swedish) and they are Muslims. Since Jews from the Babylonian exile on took part in the Silk Road trade, it is reasonable to assume that Jewish descendants are among that area's inhabitants. It would be interesting to see if Kaifeng Jewish descendants carry Iraqi/Persian/Bucharan Jewish markers, supposing there are some specific one. I dont think they have any Ashkenazi legacy, but after the visits of numerous Ashkenazi soldiers (the Austro-Hungarian Empire took part in the partition of China and the occupation of Beijing) and more recently, masses of American-Jewish tourists and Israeli backpackers, as well as consulting water engineers, you know, one never can be 100% sure.... :-)
There are clear signs of European admixture in Ashkenazim and Sephardim, albeit likely southern European and probably ancient.
Southern European admixture originates from ancient conversions in Greece, Turkey and Rome.
Behar Chart
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/genetics-the-jewish-question/
In contrast, the other Jewish populations were formed more recently from Jews who migrated or were expelled from Palestine and from individuals who were converted to Judaism during Hellenic-Hasmonean times, when proselytism was a common Jewish practice. During Greco-Roman times, recorded mass conversions led to 6 million people practicing Judaism in Roman times or up to 10% of the population of the Roman Empire. Thus, the genetic proximity of these European/Syrian Jewish populations, including Ashkenazi Jews, to each other and to French, Northern Italian, and Sardinian populations favors the idea of non-Semitic Mediterranean ancestry in the formation of the European/ Syrian Jewish groups and is incompatible with theories that Ashkenazi Jews are for the most part the direct lineal descendants of converted Khazars or Slavs. The genetic proximity of Ashkenazi Jews to southern European populations has been observed in several other recent studies.
I wrote: "There are clear signs of European admixture in Ashkenazim and Sephardim, albeit likely southern European and probably ancient."
Other Anonymous wrote:
"Southern European admixture originates from ancient conversions in Greece, Turkey and Rome."
Aren't we saying essentially the same thing?
"Aren't we saying essentially the same thing?"
Almost.
You did not indicate why there is admixture.
"Aren't we saying essentially the same thing?"
Almost.
You did not indicate why there is admixture.
"During Greco-Roman times, recorded mass conversions led to 6 million people practicing Judaism in Roman times or up to 10% of the population of the Roman Empire."
I will not dispute that there was some conversion, but I've never seen the high numbers you cite substantiated. All estimates of ancient populations should be taken with a shaker of salt. Despite this, a large number of converts would not necessarily be required to produce significant admixture in the Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jewish populations if the founding numbers that gave rise to the populations now so-labeled (i.e. us) were small. There is evidence of such a bottleneck in the identity-by-descent analysis in Atzmon. Lots of small stretches of DNA throughout the genome are shared by Ashkenazim and Sephardim among themselves. A further example of this inbreeding is that Ashkenazim who use 23andme are likely to find matches to a lot of "cousins" with no documentable relationship to correspond to the posited genetic relationship (see http://ideas.4brad.com/odds-knowing-your-cousins-23andme-part-1)
but I've never seen the high numbers you cite substantiated.
10% is obviously an upper bound.
Despite this, a large number of converts would not necessarily be required to produce significant admixture in the Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jewish
Of course.
The Ashkenazi and Sepharadi Jewish populations are not something fixed and permanent. They change and evolve all the time. Maybe in 1860 one could talk of compact, identifiable populations of Ashkenazi Jews in Pinsk and Sepharadi Jews in Salonika. Today, it is absurd. The people that call themselves something in the USA are mixture, and in Israel we are a mixed multitude of people of all over the world of remote and exotic origin. My next grandson will have one grandmother from somewhere in Iraq (or is it Persia? Bahrain? who knows).
J,
I'm an American full-Ashkenazi, you're an Israeli full-Ashkenazi. By "unmixed", I mean that we're fully Ashkenazim, but we're likely admixed compared to the ancient Hebrews. There are still plenty of unmixed Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Mizrahi samples to test. The Israeli intra-Jewish marriage is a recent occurrence. They're not testing Israeli mixed Jewish babies for the population genetic studies. Nor are they testing the children of American intermarriage. That's also a recent phenomenon and well-documented at the individual level to the point that individuals of that background can be excluded from the Ashkenazi, Sephardi, etc. clusters. One advert I saw a few years ago for recruitment into an older Jewish population genetics study conducted at NYU asked that participants be able to document all of their great-grandparents' ancestral locales in Eastern Europe. Also, American Jews aren't mixed with the Sephardim or Mizrahim in the way that Israelis are becoming because there are so few non-Ashkenazim here. The Ashkenazi migrations from Germany, Poland and Russia numerically overwhelmed the Sephardim, and there were never many Mizrahim until a few decades ago.
As mixed as we are from ancient times, I think that we Ashkenazim constitute a distinct genetic group (forget about the politically loaded words of whether we are a separate "race" from other Europeans) - the most famous characteristic of which, which distinguishes us from other Europeans, is our well know intelligence. Intelligence for much of human history was not particularly selected for, because we were already much smarter than all other animals and anything above say 70 was more than adequate for survival. So to find a human group that is specially selected for intelligence is a rare and valuable think which I would hate to have lost. In the US I see though, that because high intelligence assimilated Ashkenazim, when they marry non-Jews, tend to marry those of equal social status (and therefore approximately equal intelligence).
K
As you say, intermarriage in Israel is a recent phenomenon and it is too early to extract any conclusion. Regarding Ashkenazis in the diaspora, allow me to disagree. In my life I have seen Hungarian Jewish immigrants to Argentina (my own ethnic subgroup) marry Jews and non Jewish Argentines (mostly second generation Italians, Spanish, Anglosaxon). The equal social status thing is in average true, but misleading. The Jewish partner is first generation - penniless refugee, while the local partner is from a middle class, well established family. Till recently I was unable to evaluate IQ of a person without a formal test (now I know how to do it). So I cannot say anything about respective IQ levels. I can say something about the outcome: the children of mixed marriages are average Argentines, that is, they descend to the lower middle class - proletarian level. The children of Jewish marriages are very successful and swim like fish in Argentine's highest circles. It is very painful for me to see the lumpen children (who are now middle aged adults) of my friends from infancy. My age, having seen two or three generations being born and grow up (and sometimes die), provides an unique perspective. Jewish children are generally very healthy and go through life with ease and effortlessly, while the products of mixing have many problems and work through life from one difficulty to the next. I am aware that I sound like those despised English colonials like Rudyard Kipling, but that is my experience too.
J,
Your limited sample size for intermarriage is on the level of anecdote and should not be generalized. If the families of the participants in the Jewish-Jewish marriages were more supportive (money, connections, etc.) than the families in the Jewish-Argentine marriages, that could very well skew the results. Also, the failure of the Argentine economy in the past decade could have pulled down young Argentines (fewer, lower-paying job opportunities, etc.). These are just a few examples of things other than IQ that could be responsible for the lackluster performance of the Argentine half-Jews. If it were purely hereditary, one would not expect the children of above-average IQ Ashkenazim and well-established middle class Argentines to end up in the lower middle class below either parent's station of origin. If you're rule that Ashkenazi-anything else marriages work out badly, that bodes ill for Israel based on what you've told us.
In the US, the Jews are well established enough that they tend to marry quite well - Clinton's daughter is about to marry a Jew. There is a Reform Rabbi who is a grandson of Roosevelt. Etc.
Tell us the secret for evaluating IQ without a test?
K
(1) If you're rule that Ashkenazi-anything else marriages work out badly, that bodes ill for Israel based on what you've told us.
it bodes ill for Israel if you believe that being Ashkenazi is the perfection itself. Zionism started by recognizing the weakness of Jewish (that is, Ashkenazi) life and its fatal dangers (underlying its brilliant achievements). Zionism always proposed creating a New Jew, a non-Galuth Jew. That means miscegenation. The Israeli will be (and already is) less brilliant than the Ashkenazi of Eastern Europe, but hopefully fitter for survival. Ben Gurion and the early Zionist believed it will also be physically stronger and taller and blond too, but that was 19th century racial science.
(2) The "secret" of estimating IQ on the march is:
(a) Velocity of reaction
(b) short term memory (remembering exactly what was said)
(c) frequency of use of uncommon obscure words including professional terms, specialized slang (even Ebonics!) and foreign expressions (in Israel, quoting the Tanakh in Aramean!)
(d) passionate interest in puzzles, paradoxes, abstruse occurances, curiosities, in two words: unusual curiosity.
In addition:
(e) personal neatness and healthy look
(f) decency in daily intercourse
(g) and general culture and civilized behaviour.
Example of a person who according to the above must have very high IQ is the blogger Falkenstein.
Look at the relatives.
After all, it is not just the IQ of the spouse that is important; in fact it is less important than the genes they will pass on.
Some of these are recessive; not necessarily good or bad for that, but just cryptic, in the individual.
But look at the relatives.
Anon.
The secret of IQ evaluation on the march:
(1) Short reaction time
(2) Precise memory
(3) Use of uncommon words
(4) Passionate curiosity
(5) Interest in puzzles and curiosities
(6) Healthy neat look
(7) Decency in daily intercourse
In general, a cultured and civilized bahavior.
...bodes ill for Israel...
Not if you dont like Ashkenazis. Zionism was born out of the realization that Ashkenazi Jews were in a weak and dangerous position in the Diaspora. All their brilliant achievements counted for nothing. Zionist hated the pallid yeshive-bocher and proposed to create a new Jew in its own country. An intellectually dumber but sturdier fighting Jew - fit to survive in this horrible era.
I'm with you on a thru d but e, f and g are optional.
Read the story and look at the photo of Grigori Perelman:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/24/grigori-perelman-reclusiv_n_511938.html
One of unserer Yidn who is both brilliant and nuts. See also Bobby Fisher, Alber Einstein, etc. In fact I would say e-g correlates NEGATIVELY with super high intelligence - often great geniuses are above trivial matters such as personal hygiene. See also the story of Sidis - another classic anti-social genius.
K
The Ashkenazim were, until Holocaust, an amazing success story - they went from being 10% of the worlds Jews to 90% in a couple of centuries. Herzl's analysis was proved correct by luck as a result of Hitler, just as Marx was "proved" by Stalin. In neither case were there any real "historical forces" at work. There is no such thing, just the influence of humans who are sometimes madmen. It is a little flaw in our monkey programming that the same qualities that make some men charismatic leaders that other monkeys want to follow also makes these leaders murderously insane. A bad combination but one that had nothing to do with Zionist/ Marxist theory. If Hitler had been machine gunned in the trenches in WWI, if the Czar had been a little less stupid, the Jews of Europe would still be there.
K
I am not sure. The enthusiasm with which European peoples killed Jews - Estonia, Poland, Ukraine, Slovakia, etc. without help of the Nazis, shows that Jewish existence was untenable and they would have been attacked anyway. Sooner ot later. Of course, without the Germans's organizational skill, the massacres would have been inefficient pogroms and most Jews would have emigrated, escaped and survived. Jewish numbers were already decreasing all over Europe before the war.
"Zionist hated the pallid yeshive-bocher and proposed to create a new Jew in its own country. An intellectually dumber but sturdier fighting Jew - fit to survive in this horrible era."
And yet European-emigre Ashkenazim played an integral role in the development of the nuclear weapons that make a mockery of the Zionist idea that Jews are better off dumber, sturdier and all collected in one tiny place (awaiting eventual near-extermination). The early Zionists should have declared America the promised land and built a new, secular Jerusalem.
Well, it was called the Goldene Medine for something. There were even agricultural colonies in the USA.
But the last word on the subject has yet to be pronounced.
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