"Some firms would have been put off by the fact that non-Muslims are barred from working in Mecca, so China simply converted hundreds of railway workers to Islam."(From Economist, on the Mecca Railway Project).
16 comments:
B
said...
Since China has many millions of Muslims, both ethnically Chinese and non-Chinese, I don't understand the point.
The point is that China and Chinese are amoral in their difference with foreigners (or themselves). They want to make money, nothing more, nothing less. If that means paying of Big Men in Africa, fine; if that means convertinng to Islam, fine.. etc., etc.
Westerners seem to be concerned about 100 different things besides money in dealing with non-Westerners. The China approach must feel refreshing to the global south.
The point is that Chinese have no religion, have a different concept of religion or are constitutionally unable to have a religion as we understand it.
I am not condemning or criticizing them, we can well live and work together. But we are different. We Jews have our Torah (Law) and try to follow a religion, Christians are certainly religious, but Chinese are basically amoral. Not immoral, but indifferent.
I don't think the Chinese are quite amoral - otherwise they would just slaughter tourists and take their money, for example. In fact, crime in China is very low - I certainly felt safer on the streets of Beijing than I do in many "religious" countries. So they have a morality that does not involve believing in any particular imaginary deity. I think the West is finally catching up with them in the spiritual dept. and understand on some level that religion is not on a 10 year old's emotional level where MY god is better than YOUR god - MY God is real and true and yours sucks.
We are not above of changing our holy faith for mercenary reasons, but at least we make a scene of deep spiritual crisis. Heinrich Heine converted to be able to receive his diploma (of lawyer...) but he waxed poetic all his life about his suffering. The Chinese dont give a thought and accept Mohammed as the true prophet for what? for a backbreaking job in the Saudi desert.
The Chinese belief is that the future on earth is what matters, and worth suffering and struggling for. Furthermore they generalize an inordinate respect for their ancestors to an immense belief in the family.
They are not, however, devoid of magical thinking, as the unpleasant trade in animal parts attests.
Would you "confess" three times that the Easter bunny is god and the tooth-fairy is his messenger for cold hard cash. I would, you could always uncofess after pocketing it
The Chinese government has no comprehension of the fact that aside from physical and social needs, people have spiritual needs, and it will be their downfall.
The Chinese government is not unaware, though keep in mind that most Chinese (even before the Communists) never had a "religion" in the Western sense to begin with. Now that Chinese Marxism is an empty shell, the Chinese government has taken pains to restore to the calendar traditional Chinese holidays and practices such as the "Mid-Autumn Festival" (which BTW, takes place exactly on the same day as Sukkot due to the mutual lunar calendar).
Mid Autumn Festival and other Chinese practices have no spiritual meanings. In all my travels in China, no one ever mentioned anything spiritual, metaphysical or even psychological. They positively avoid and hate Marxist ideology or any other abstract political concepts.
Africans, on the other hand, live in a world full of spirits and invisible powers.
Jews in general do believe in those beings and try to negotiate with them.
Although they are a minority, it was very clear to me visiting Buddhist temples that some of the Chinese visitors were worshipers having what could only be called spiritual experiences. Also most Chinese have what I think could be considered a "spiritual" relationship with their ancestors. The dead are not in any position to render material assistance in an objective sense, so what is the point of sending them spirit money, etc. except "spiritual"?
Likewise, party members still take party doctrine seriously, although the doctrine was been twisted to the point where factory owners can be "Marxists" (or at least Party members in good standing) and yet drive around in Mercedes. The Chinese are a literary culture and like the Jews they feel that words, especially once written down, have magical powers to create their own reality - this is why the Party goes to such great lengths to impose censorship.
On the other hand, my son says that since the Tiananmen affair, Chinese no longer address each other as "comrade" (tongzhi) but have returned to the pre-Revolutionary forms of address. Ironically, tonghzi is now a code word for "gay" , except when used by the most clueless party hacks.
Confucius and the attendant ancestor veneration is being revived these days in China with some official CCP support. This is a change from the Mao era when Confucius was attacked and repressed as being 'reactionary.'
Chinese religion and spirituality is a mix of ancient folk religion, Confucianism/ancestor veneration, Daoism, Buddhism, etc. It tends to be fluid, with people picking and choosing, changing among these various ideas and beliefs.
16 comments:
Since China has many millions of Muslims, both ethnically Chinese and non-Chinese, I don't understand the point.
B,
The point is that China and Chinese are amoral in their difference with foreigners (or themselves). They want to make money, nothing more, nothing less. If that means paying of Big Men in Africa, fine; if that means convertinng to Islam, fine.. etc., etc.
Westerners seem to be concerned about 100 different things besides money in dealing with non-Westerners. The China approach must feel refreshing to the global south.
difference = dealings
The point is that Chinese have no religion, have a different concept of religion or are constitutionally unable to have a religion as we understand it.
I am not condemning or criticizing them, we can well live and work together. But we are different. We Jews have our Torah (Law) and try to follow a religion, Christians are certainly religious, but Chinese are basically amoral. Not immoral, but indifferent.
I don't think the Chinese are quite amoral - otherwise they would just slaughter tourists and take their money, for example. In fact, crime in China is very low - I certainly felt safer on the streets of Beijing than I do in many "religious" countries. So they have a morality that does not involve believing in any particular imaginary deity. I think the West is finally catching up with them in the spiritual dept. and understand on some level that religion is not on a 10 year old's emotional level where MY god is better than YOUR god - MY God is real and true and yours sucks.
K
We are not above of changing our holy faith for mercenary reasons, but at least we make a scene of deep spiritual crisis. Heinrich Heine converted to be able to receive his diploma (of lawyer...) but he waxed poetic all his life about his suffering. The Chinese dont give a thought and accept Mohammed as the true prophet for what? for a backbreaking job in the Saudi desert.
The Chinese belief is that the future on earth is what matters, and worth suffering and struggling for. Furthermore they generalize an inordinate respect for their ancestors to an immense belief in the family.
They are not, however, devoid of magical thinking, as the unpleasant trade in animal parts attests.
Anon.
Would you "confess" three times that the Easter bunny is god and the tooth-fairy is his messenger for cold hard cash. I would, you could always uncofess after pocketing it
The Chinese government has no comprehension of the fact that aside from physical and social needs, people have spiritual needs, and it will be their downfall.
The Chinese government is not unaware, though keep in mind that most Chinese (even before the Communists) never had a "religion" in the Western sense to begin with. Now that Chinese Marxism is an empty shell, the Chinese government has taken pains to restore to the calendar traditional Chinese holidays and practices such as the "Mid-Autumn Festival" (which BTW, takes place exactly on the same day as Sukkot due to the mutual lunar calendar).
K
Go into any casino, witness the gamblers there in their diapers, and one can only conclude that spiritual needs are being more than adequately met.
Anon.
Mid Autumn Festival and other Chinese practices have no spiritual meanings. In all my travels in China, no one ever mentioned anything spiritual, metaphysical or even psychological. They positively avoid and hate Marxist ideology or any other abstract political concepts.
Africans, on the other hand, live in a world full of spirits and invisible powers.
Jews in general do believe in those beings and try to negotiate with them.
Although they are a minority, it was very clear to me visiting Buddhist temples that some of the Chinese visitors were worshipers having what could only be called spiritual experiences. Also most Chinese have what I think could be considered a "spiritual" relationship with their ancestors. The dead are not in any position to render material assistance in an objective sense, so what is the point of sending them spirit money, etc. except "spiritual"?
Likewise, party members still take party doctrine seriously, although the doctrine was been twisted to the point where factory owners can be "Marxists" (or at least Party members in good standing) and yet drive around in Mercedes. The Chinese are a literary culture and like the Jews they feel that words, especially once written down, have magical powers to create their own reality - this is why the Party goes to such great lengths to impose censorship.
On the other hand, my son says that since the Tiananmen affair, Chinese no longer address each other as "comrade" (tongzhi) but have returned to the pre-Revolutionary forms of address. Ironically, tonghzi is now a code word for "gay" , except when used by the most clueless party hacks.
K
Perfect!
Anon.
Yes, Taiwanese slang has invaded Saigon and the mainland. The Big Bucks rule.
Confucius and the attendant ancestor veneration is being revived these days in China with some official CCP support. This is a change from the Mao era when Confucius was attacked and repressed as being 'reactionary.'
http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-32846920080404
Chinese religion and spirituality is a mix of ancient folk religion, Confucianism/ancestor veneration, Daoism, Buddhism, etc. It tends to be fluid, with people picking and choosing, changing among these various ideas and beliefs.
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