Minden szombat reggel 9.00-tól várunk a Vasvári Pál utcai zsinagógában és 9.30-tól az Óbudai zsinagógában
Main course: Solet (pic from the invitation). We are like that.
16
comments:
Anonymous
said...
You can't fool me - that's not solet or even cholent but dafina. It says so right in the picture. Although chickpeas were not unknown in E. Europe, they did not usually put them in cholent.
I am thinking of forwarding your complaint to Rav Koves, the head of the Budapest Orthodox Rabbinate. I shall formulate the complaint as a halachic query to the Rav, like: "Is it permissible for an Ashkenazi to adopt the Sepharadi minhag of cooking chickpeas in the Saturday solet? "
A lawyer or a Torah scholar could formulate the question in a more formal way. Do you have any suggestion?
The is the irony. The Orthodox, who are the last guardians of Yiddish culture, care nothing for Yiddish culture, only for frumkeit. The Yiddish in their Yiddish paper is horribly spelled and mixed with English written in Hebrew characters - the important thing is to show devotion to your Rebbe. Yes, a dafina is kosher but it's not Yiddish. You can be religious without being Yiddish (and vice versa - the Bundists loved Yiddish culture but avoided religion). They are two separate things. I had a (non-religious) Yiddish teacher in college who said she loved Yiddish culture too much to trust it to the Orthodox. A solet is not a cholent is not a dafina. They all meet the requirements of kashrut and not cooking on shabbos, but each one is rooted in a particular place and the world is poorer if we can no longer tell one from another. It is a sad reminder of how much we have lost. I'm guessing that once upon a time, any Jew in the streets of Budapest could have pinpointed what part of Hungary you were originally from, maybe even which neighborhood in Budapest, what your economic bracket was, just by looking at the solet your mother made. Does it have a goose leg and schmaltz, does it have whole eggs in it and how many? Does it have paprika? Does it have a piece of beef? The solet of the poor was probably just beans and barley and onions.
The saddest is solet made with pork, which is apparently popular not only among non-Jewish Hungarians but also non-observant Jews, even served at supposedly "Jewish style" restaurants in Budapest. Our grandparents would be spinning in their graves, if they had graves instead of being reduced to dust at Auschwitz.
Amazingly, some second and third generation Hungarian Jews (generations counted from the Holocaust) believe that eating solet in a restaurant (with pork, of course) they are identifying with their Jewish background. You would not believe what some "Jews" in Budapest believe Judaism to be. They are so far from Judaism that they form their ideas on the basis of the New Testament and the antisemite press. I am member of one of their list and in a debate on who is a Jew, I caused a scandal saying that Jews, in a general way, not me HasVeHaloyle, tend to observe the Shabbos. They called me intolerant, etc. - insinuating I am a bigoted racist.
This goes on every in the US too. My wife's extended family compiled a book of "family recipes". On the cover they put a picture of my wife's great grandmother, who was a saintly observant woman - her husband ran (most she ran and he davened) a religious book store. Inside the book, dishonoring her memory, were tons of recipes for shrimp, scallops, clams, crabs, etc. A veritable festival of treyf recipes. I think they had enough sense not to include recipes involving pork. As I mentioned before, among US Jews the taboo against pork is much stronger than the taboo against seafood.
"I caused a scandal saying that Jews, in a general way, not me HasVeHaloyle, tend to observe the Shabbos."
This is a semantic argument because Judaism is an ethnicity as well as a religion. The orthodox variant of the religion holds no appeal for many of us, and for some of us no variant of the religion is palatable. However, our ethnicity is not German, Hungarian, Russian etc. Jews, whether religious or not, are clearly differentiable from these populations genetically and in average appearance. So you're young friends in Hungary are not so wrong after all.
I disagree. As you can see walking in a street in Israel, Jews are racially very different among themselves, and we are not one but hundreds of ethnic groups. We the Ashkenazi tribe are only one of the Jewish tribes and our ethnic uniqueness is rapidly being dissolved. Young Hungarian Jews are ethnically similar or identical to the mass of Hungarian people (which itself is a composite of hundred regional and tribal units), few of them have four Jewish grandparents, and are totally secular and have no Jewish education at all not they have their parents. So, in what sense they are Jewish? Inthe sense that their ignorant/antisemite colleges spread rumors about them that they are "Jews"? Every left wing politician in Hungary is called a Jew and forced to deny and defend himself. So when one says "I AM a Jew" does it mean that he is a Jew? They, my Hungarian list members, think that that is exactly what a Jew is, one who says that he is a Jew. For me, and I consider myself very liberal, it is not so. Jews may not be religious, but have to follow a minimum of Jewish customs. Eating solet in a restaurant is not being Jew.
Jewish folkways grew out of religious practice and they cannot survive without them - once you cut off the religious roots, the folkways are like cut flowers, doomed to die sooner or later.
"As you can see walking in a street in Israel, Jews are racially very different among themselves"
This is not entirely correct except for outlier populations such as Falashas, Bnai Menashe, Kaifeng Jews and to some extent Yemeni Jews.** The autosomal population genetic profiles of mainstream Ashkenazim, Sephardim and even some Mizrahim (Moroccan Jews and Syrian Jews) are similar. To some extent this similarity arose out of admixture with South/southeast Europeans and Anatolians a long time ago occurring on top of a common Levantine genetic substrate.
Now, as to whether strong boundaries should be established for calling oneself Jewih so that Judaism as you like to see it can survive, I don't care. If the price of being Jewish is that I have to live like the ridiculous constricted life of an ultra-orthodox and believe in ridiculous falsifiable fairy tales, it's not worth it.
**Please see http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/genetics-the-jewish-question/#more-4343
What you have to understand is that the ultra-Orthodox are is a reactionary force against atheistic libertine modernism and not Judaism itself. The Wahhabis are not Islam , the Neuterai Karta are not Judaism. There is a third way. Read Maimonides and you'll see that Judaism is a religion of common sense and reason, not incompatible with a full and modern life.
You dont have to be ultraortodox to be Jewish. Few are in fact.
The question is what is life worth living? Is there anything transcendental in living? Or are we robots programmed by our genes that go through life doing what one was made to do? Let me comment that the question has lost its relevance for me, as I am old and have lived my life almost to the end.
16 comments:
You can't fool me - that's not solet or even cholent but dafina. It says so right in the picture. Although chickpeas were not unknown in E. Europe, they did not usually put them in cholent.
K
http://www.zsido.com/programok/ima_es_solet_kezdoknek/135
I am thinking of forwarding your complaint to Rav Koves, the head of the Budapest Orthodox Rabbinate. I shall formulate the complaint as a halachic query to the Rav, like: "Is it permissible for an Ashkenazi to adopt the Sepharadi minhag of cooking chickpeas in the Saturday solet? "
A lawyer or a Torah scholar could formulate the question in a more formal way. Do you have any suggestion?
The is the irony. The Orthodox, who are the last guardians of Yiddish culture, care nothing for Yiddish culture, only for frumkeit. The Yiddish in their Yiddish paper is horribly spelled and mixed with English written in Hebrew characters - the important thing is to show devotion to your Rebbe. Yes, a dafina is kosher but it's not Yiddish. You can be religious without being Yiddish (and vice versa - the Bundists loved Yiddish culture but avoided religion). They are two separate things. I had a (non-religious) Yiddish teacher in college who said she loved Yiddish culture too much to trust it to the Orthodox.
A solet is not a cholent is not a dafina. They all meet the requirements of kashrut and not cooking on shabbos, but each one is rooted in a particular place and the world is poorer if we can no longer tell one from another. It is a sad reminder of how much we have lost. I'm guessing that once upon a time, any Jew in the streets of Budapest could have pinpointed what part of Hungary you were originally from, maybe even which neighborhood in Budapest, what your economic bracket was, just by looking at the solet your mother made. Does it have a goose leg and schmaltz, does it have whole eggs in it and how many? Does it have paprika? Does it have a piece of beef? The solet of the poor was probably just beans and barley and onions.
K
True. It is not solet but dafina. It is a shame, but the Budapest orthodox seem to be unaware of the difference.
What can I say? We are all mixed up these days. Jewish multiculturalism.
The saddest is solet made with pork, which is apparently popular not only among non-Jewish Hungarians but also non-observant Jews, even served at supposedly "Jewish style" restaurants in Budapest. Our grandparents would be spinning in their graves, if they had graves instead of being reduced to dust at Auschwitz.
K
Amazingly, some second and third generation Hungarian Jews (generations counted from the Holocaust) believe that eating solet in a restaurant (with pork, of course) they are identifying with their Jewish background. You would not believe what some "Jews" in Budapest believe Judaism to be. They are so far from Judaism that they form their ideas on the basis of the New Testament and the antisemite press. I am member of one of their list and in a debate on who is a Jew, I caused a scandal saying that Jews, in a general way, not me HasVeHaloyle, tend to observe the Shabbos. They called me intolerant, etc. - insinuating I am a bigoted racist.
This goes on every in the US too. My wife's extended family compiled a book of "family recipes". On the cover they put a picture of my wife's great grandmother, who was a saintly observant woman - her husband ran (most she ran and he davened) a religious book store. Inside the book, dishonoring her memory, were tons of recipes for shrimp, scallops, clams, crabs, etc. A veritable festival of treyf recipes. I think they had enough sense not to include recipes involving pork. As I mentioned before, among US Jews the taboo against pork is much stronger than the taboo against seafood.
K
"I caused a scandal saying that Jews, in a general way, not me HasVeHaloyle, tend to observe the Shabbos."
This is a semantic argument because Judaism is an ethnicity as well as a religion. The orthodox variant of the religion holds no appeal for many of us, and for some of us no variant of the religion is palatable. However, our ethnicity is not German, Hungarian, Russian etc. Jews, whether religious or not, are clearly differentiable from these populations genetically and in average appearance. So you're young friends in Hungary are not so wrong after all.
I disagree. As you can see walking in a street in Israel, Jews are racially very different among themselves, and we are not one but hundreds of ethnic groups. We the Ashkenazi tribe are only one of the Jewish tribes and our ethnic uniqueness is rapidly being dissolved. Young Hungarian Jews are ethnically similar or identical to the mass of Hungarian people (which itself is a composite of hundred regional and tribal units), few of them have four Jewish grandparents, and are totally secular and have no Jewish education at all not they have their parents. So, in what sense they are Jewish? Inthe sense that their ignorant/antisemite colleges spread rumors about them that they are "Jews"? Every left wing politician in Hungary is called a Jew and forced to deny and defend himself. So when one says "I AM a Jew" does it mean that he is a Jew? They, my Hungarian list members, think that that is exactly what a Jew is, one who says that he is a Jew. For me, and I consider myself very liberal, it is not so. Jews may not be religious, but have to follow a minimum of Jewish customs. Eating solet in a restaurant is not being Jew.
Especially if it is solet with pork.
Jewish folkways grew out of religious practice and they cannot survive without them - once you cut off the religious roots, the folkways are like cut flowers, doomed to die sooner or later.
K
Especially if it is solet with pork.
I couldnt have said it better.
"As you can see walking in a street in Israel, Jews are racially very different among themselves"
This is not entirely correct except for outlier populations such as Falashas, Bnai Menashe, Kaifeng Jews and to some extent Yemeni Jews.** The autosomal population genetic profiles of mainstream Ashkenazim, Sephardim and even some Mizrahim (Moroccan Jews and Syrian Jews) are similar. To some extent this similarity arose out of admixture with South/southeast Europeans and Anatolians a long time ago occurring on top of a common Levantine genetic substrate.
Now, as to whether strong boundaries should be established for calling oneself Jewih so that Judaism as you like to see it can survive, I don't care. If the price of being Jewish is that I have to live like the ridiculous constricted life of an ultra-orthodox and believe in ridiculous falsifiable fairy tales, it's not worth it.
**Please see http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/genetics-the-jewish-question/#more-4343
and
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/genetics-the-jews-its-still-complicated/#more-4370)
What you have to understand is that the ultra-Orthodox are is a reactionary force against atheistic libertine modernism and not Judaism itself. The Wahhabis are not Islam , the Neuterai Karta are not Judaism. There is a third way. Read Maimonides and you'll see that Judaism is a religion of common sense and reason, not incompatible with a full and modern life.
K
You dont have to be ultraortodox to be Jewish. Few are in fact.
The question is what is life worth living? Is there anything transcendental in living? Or are we robots programmed by our genes that go through life doing what one was made to do? Let me comment that the question has lost its relevance for me, as I am old and have lived my life almost to the end.
My inlaws are nearing 90 - if you make it to 90 you have a whole 'nother 1/3 of your life to go, so the game is not over yet.
K
not over, winding down
Post a Comment