I learned a new world: Krinaki. Near the City of Kever Benjamim there is a village founded by Lybian Jews where I have some friends. They always said that Ghaddafi was ethincally Jewish and that his family is Jewish. Ghaddafi is a common Jewish name. His son, who now appeared at the UN Assembly, is technically Jewish (mother 100% Hungarian Jewess). Apart from them, there are no known Jews left in Lybia.
These Tripolitan Jews say that the current Lybian riots have an ethnic background, Krinakis against Tripolitanians. Krinaki is, I discovered, Cyrenaica, and its people is far more primitive that the Europeans (in the Levantine sense) of Tripoli. Khadaffi displaced King Idris, an ethnic Krinaki, and favoured the Tripolitanians. So what those clueless CNN reporters see as a popular revolution demanding democracy, our neighbors see as an ethnic conflict.
I presume they know better. The elder of this village receive monthly pensions from German Welfare, having been deported to Auschwitz in 1944-45. It was the end of WWII and the Germans had lost the war, but still had important things to finish. They erected a ghetto in Tripoli and shipped these people through a Mediterranean full of British warships to be killed in Poland. Tripolitanian Jews are not Ashkenazi Jews, they are apparently descended from Judean immigrants during the Greek colonization expansion 2500 years ago.
The pic shows recently discovered figurines produced by the pre-Greek natives.
19 comments:
It may be unreliable speculation about Ghadafi's Jewishness. Who was his Hungarian Jewish wife? I don't think it's Safia Farkash as she was born in Libya.
I have a reproduction figurine just like that ( but much smaller) that I bought at a museum in Athens - it is very typical of Cycladic (pre-historic Greek) sculpture. What is the point of the gun? I don't get it.
The Germans were, in their German way, incredibly thorough in gathering every single Jew that they could from the furthest reaches of the occupied territories, from every little island in the Greek isles, etc. Passage would be booked by the SS on the Deutsche Reichsbahn, the proper fare would be paid, etc. Why they had to schlep people thousands of miles all the way to Poland to kill them I don't know.
K
I've heard those rumors, but how can Gaddafi simultaneously be Jewish and a Bedouin?
Concerning Ghaddafi, you really couldn't make this up, so it must be true.
Anon.
Please read carefully. Kever Benjamin area Tripolitanian Jews assume as a well known fact that Ghaddafi is of Jewish blood. As for myself, having no other sources, tend to believe they know what they are murmuring about.
On why the Nazis took the trouble to transport North African Jews to Poland to be killed, the answer is "Order and rules". The genocide was not a disorderly pogrom, but a carefully planned and executed project. I read Hitler's Willing Executioners, and it is obvious that everything was done in a very organized way. Given the order, Hitler's Executioners would have changed in a split second from killing to healing Jews, or from killing Jews to killing German invalids or Jehova's Witnesses.
On the other hand, in the eastern territories, the Einsatzgruppen would follow behind the front and execute all the Jews on the spot in the chaotic 1st days after the Germans arrived. But in the places where order had been established, I think they thought it unseemly to publicly execute people - better to have them "deported". Keep in mind that the Final Solution was (supposedly) secret.
K
I knew Greek colonies were as far west as France and even Spain - didn't know they ran that far eastward as well. The Mediterranean was quite the mixing bowl - not to say that I would consider Tripolitanians to be Europeans today.
A sad post, but interesting. Consider me an enemy of Nazism and its fanatical mass murder.
Here's to the Greeks and their fine culture. Their colonial practices are interesting:
"colonies were sometimes founded by vanquished people, who left their homes to escape subjection at the hand of a foreign enemy; sometimes as a sequel to civil disorders, when the losers in internecine battles left to form a new city elsewhere; sometimes to get rid of surplus population, and thereby to avoid internal convulsions. But in most cases the motivation was to establish and facilitate relations of trade with foreign countries [similar to medieval Jews -RS] and further the wealth of the mother-city (in Greek, metropolis).Colonies were established in Thrace since the 8th century BC"
> didn't know they ran that far eastward as well
Lol, make that southward
According to an interview with an old Libyan Jew, Gaddafi's mother was a Jew who left her Jewish husband for an Arab sheikh with whom she gave birth to Gaddafi. The Libyan Jew claimed that her grandmother was the sister of Gaddafi's mother.
"According to an interview with an old Libyan Jew, Gaddafi's mother was a Jew who left her Jewish husband for an Arab sheikh with whom she gave birth to Gaddafi. The Libyan Jew claimed that her grandmother was the sister of Gaddafi's mother."
How do we know she wasn't senile or making this up? Likewise, why trust the Kever Benjamin Tripolitanian Jews about this? It is essentially unverifiable speculation.
It is verifiable by DNA. There are checking the gnetic relations among ancient corps in cemeteries, so whay not Ghaddafi's. Some day it may be corroborated.
Soon they can check Ghaddafi's corpse.
K
"It is verifiable by DNA."
Not exactly. Y chromsome and mitochondrial DNA profiles between the populations overlap enough that unless there were a close haplotype match indicating recent common ancestry shared with people of documented Jewish ancestry in the database, it wouldn't be possible to declare Jewish ancestry. Moreover, there is not perfect separation of Jews from either Middle Eastern populations or Southern Europeans in any of the commercially available autosomal tests, despite whatever hoopla you have read in the popular press. The best you'd get right now from such testing is a probability, nothing definitive.
Anonymous - Since we have several several Lybian Jews living in Israel who say that they are close blood relatives (uncle, cousin) of the Lybian tyrant, it is feasible to establish his Jewishness with high level of probability. Of course, we need his corpse for the test.
His "corpse" will soon be in Venezuela, or more likely Saudi Arabia, enjoying the facilities with Idi Amin Dada.
Chavez is not a fool; what's the upside of Ghaddafi now, except his money, which could be easily taken from him?
Anon.
I've read a couple sources today that said yes, he is of Jewish descent.
"I've read a couple sources today that said yes, he is of Jewish descent."
Pray share them? And these aren't anti-Ghadafi sites trying to smear him or off-kilter lunatics making assertions without evidence?
Pity we cannot ask the opinion of the late Dr. Armand Hammer, Ghaddafi's best friend and a secret Jew himself.
The cycladic figurine pictured, has been transfered from Libya to Somalia since 1990.
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