"The Torah commands us to rest on Shabbat, along with our families, workers, and animals. There's nothing on that list about digital water meters, but the halachic issue is indeed there. And that's a big problem (my emphasis) in the modern world: Digital meters measuring electricity, water and gas are essential to the infrastructure of smart homes and smart cities that are becoming more and more common.
The halachic issue of “closing a circuit” (segirat ma'agal) is one of the reasons that digital meters are not more common in Israel. A Sabbath observant person cannot open the water tap on Shabbat, because the information in the meter is updated, as is its display, with every drop. This is not the case with mechanical meters, which measure usage indirectly (as water flows it drives piston or disk that moves a magnet which in turn drives the register.
36 comments:
Proof for the world that orthodox Judaism is insane.
It is a harmless, good way of insanity. It is OUR way of insanity.
Let me explain the J Family Theory (I received this chochme through my Father). The human brain is product of evolution and does operate quite well in say commanding the body to chase an antilope or throw a stone or fight a rival. But it get lost when faced with the universe. It sees water carriers, kids, bears, milk roads etc. in the night sky, where is nothing of the kind. It hears voices and sees things that are not there. It engages in bizarre rituals like human sacrifice, which all human groups practiced. In short, we have to live with a deranged and dangerous mind. We have to find a way to manage it so its helps us through life without harming us too much.
Let see how other people manage their minds. Adventists reject modern technology and plow with horses in Pennsylvania. Christian Scientists reject modern medicine. Environmentalists eat only "natural" food produced nearby. Germans bankrupt their country building windmills. Danes covered their country with solar panels (theirs is a foggy, misty land, never a sunny day). Americans made whisky from corn and instead of drinking it they used it as gas. (To their credit, the ethanol sacrilege was stopped). Some people crosses the street when see a black cat. Our people build hi-tech electronic water meters that display "Shabbath Shalom" once a week. Insane, true, but it is a hi-tech and harmless form of insanity. Could be much worse.
So let us focus in calculating the exact hour when the Shabbath enters in the North Pole of Saturn. Kosher astronauts will need that knowledge so they can light candles.
J,
It says in the Torah, "by this shall you live." The ultimate practical test of a faith or system of beliefs is whether it facilitates the survival and thriving of its adherents. Compared to the Faith of Modernity, which is built on the worship of logic, and whose adherents are consuming themselves out of existence across the world, Judaism is awesome.
I would hardly call the impoverished ignorance of the Torah/Talmud's most devout adherents, the ultra-orthodox, thriving. Their birthrate is bolstered by generous government handouts as well. Let's see how well that holds up when those end. Ultra-orthodox Judaism didn't appeal to the vast majority of our ancestors who abandoned it between 1850 and 1950, and it has little appeal to rational people now whether or not they subscribe to modernity as a faith (a flawed concept on your part) or not. I am actually reactionary and conservative outside my strong dislike for the Talmudic Judaism of my ancestors. I certainly don't relish the social trajectory of the modern West, and I think that the level-headedness of other modernizing societies like China gives the lie to your concept that modernity itself rather than lack of civilizational pride and other pathologies that have arisen in a milieu of Western modernity cause consumption out of existence.
My experiences with the Orthodox suggest that they by and large treat each other well-that they have a community which genuinely cares about each member as a person. This isn't the fake friendliness of the SWPLs, either-I can tell.
I'm sure that just as their birthrate was high prior to generous government handouts, it will remain high after them. The majority of our ancestors abandoned Orthodoxy to embrace Communism or Progressivism-neither of those are very appealing or conducive to passing on your genes and values to grateful children. The amount of Yidn who bought into the lies of modern society in a search for cheaper happiness only to end up murdered by their colleagues or rot away abandoned by their children and community in a nursing home is staggering.
China is anything but level-headed. As the Slitty Eye has pointed out in his recent post, it is a society which everybody living there wishes to leave ASAP, whose members treat each other like shit. The nature of the modern existence, where no ultimates exist to anchor anything to, leads inexorably to all its nihilistic excesses.
I am no fan of Talmudism as such, but history shows that no other forms of Judaism are been viable in the long term-the outmarriage and apostasy rates of the progressive strains are staggering, and the Karaim aren't exactly thriving these days (though one presumes they are equally eligible for those generous handouts, and equally subject to the mitzva to multiply.) If you find another form of Judaism which would maximize the chances of having a large amount of observant Jewish descendants, you let me know, ok?
I am glad that there are people out there that have independently arrived to the same conclusions.
Word, nigga.
(in reality, reading your site and getting the benefit of your reflections as an old guy who's seen it all-Communist, capitalist, Western, Eastern, African, secular, orthodox, has had a non-trivial effect on the evolution of my worldview over the last several years. It's easy to dismiss funny-looking guys with black hats and beards who rock back and forth when they talk and tell retarded Rebbe stories. Not so easy to dismiss a secular normal old dude who says they're right.)
Who cares about outmarriage and apostasism. If I were in the position of making a choice for my children and the only way to ensure that they were Jewish would be to set them on the path of Orthodoxy, I would take them to be baptized immediately. Better anything than Orthodox Judaism.
Any particular reason you feel that way?
Besides the fact that Orthodox Judaism would require me to espouse non-truths to fit in, I dislike the very concept of religious law and being subject to the jurisdiction of scientifically ignorant rabbis in its application. I consider the whole gamut of religious strictures in Talmudic Judaism to be a ridiculous waste of time and effort. Combined with the extreme focus on useless Talmud study among the Orthodox, I think that the culture of Orthodox Judaism wastes a lot of money and time that could be employed more profitably elsewhere, not limited to secular studies. I am also not a communitarian at heart. I care more than any children of mine would grow up to be well-off than that they would grow up still identifying as Jews. Being Jewish is dangerous anyway. If the economic recession persists or worsens, which I think it will, anti-Semitism is likely to spike. What benefit would being more identifiably Jewish convey to my hypothetical children in that situation?
Probably self-hate.
Probably self-hate.
Apparently, J just can't conceive that there would be any rational reason to disagree with his views. I hope that Herzl's experiment works out over the long term for the sake of his descendants, but we don't yet know it won't end in disaster for the Jewish people. Then blending in and being well-off won't be so unimportant.
You prefer secular law, where you are at the mercy of cougar judges? Your concerns regarding wasted money can be addressed in a twofold manner: a) don't give it to nonsense (for instance, give tzdaka to those who need it for their family,) and b) the secular state, to which you subjugate yourself, spends much more on much dumber pursuits.
Your two final objections run to the ideas that you would rather your kids be well off financially than Jewish, and that being Jewish is inherently a hazardous enterprise. Aside from the fact that all wealth comes from G-d at least in the sense that it's subject to force majeure factors (how much wealth was destroyed or redistributed violently in the 20th century,) consider this: the most miserable people I know are rich freiers and their children. What good is money when you're alone in a nursing home? The Rothschilds had plenty of cash, but those who freied out have failed to reproduce in the long term. As far as hazard-you are right, if ever there was a faith for cowards and the weak of heart, Judaism is not it...
Even the Orthodox pay (or are supposed to pay but shirk until they are caught) taxes to the secular government. So they give money to the dumb pursuits of the secular state and waste their money kashering separate milchig and fleishig kitchens, buying two sets of dishes, buying expensive but poor quality kosher food, sending their kids to terrible private schools where they learn nothing but Talmud, etc. So neither the Orthodox nor I can choose to avoid supporting the dumb pursuits of secular government, but I can at least choose not to follow the Orthodox in his peronal dumb pursuits.
The jurisdiction of crazy ignorant rabbis includes not only family law but religious practice. And if they reach a population tipping point in Israel, they might try to impose halachah as national law as the crazy Muslim fanatics have done in some of their countries. Then, at least in Israel, their jurisdiction would extend to all matters. That might encourage the Diaspora rabbis to attempt to expand their reach, although they would be limited by secular law. Of course, secular law also limits how partial they can be to men in divorce settlements since they can't just give the wife a pittance to go away.
Because of the vehemence with which you speak of Orthodoxy, I was expecting that you would have a personal reason for your feelings. None of the reasons you've given thus far seem to support this intensity of feeling.
Much like it is not a faith for cowards, Judaism is not a faith for misers, for those who only share their wealth with others under governmental coercion. As far as learning only Talmud, somehow, the Orthodox doctors, ichthyologists, programmers etc. I know haven't let their Talmudic education get in the way of their secular learning. As far as the poor quality and high prices of kosher food, I've yet to see a morbidly obese Orthodox Jew (I'm talking People of Walmart here, not portly,) nor one starving to death. The more prominent rabbis tend to live to fairly advanced years, despite their lack of exercise and total disregard for secular health fads-perhaps the food quality is not so terrible after all.
I've been to Iraq, Uzbekistan and Afghanistan, and have studied the history of Muslim Central Asia fairly extensively. I am convinced that a traditional Sharia legal system run by religious scholars is better suited to their culture and sociobiology than a Westernized one run by Arab lawyers in terms of flexibility, predictability and openness. Likewise, a Halachic system would probably better fit the needs of Jewish society than one run by secular Jewish lawyers and judges. Paradoxically, a Western system, while proclaiming the primacy of the individual and his rights systematically destroys any non-governmental institutions which may have protected that individual, until he is left alone to face the state. I don't see that in Halacha.
The rights of women to divorce and be supported by their ex-husband have to be weighed against the rights of the ex-husband to his earnings, and all of society's stake in maintaining family integrity, having as many children as possible conceived, born and raised in a full family, etc. We see the results of the Western approach first-hand in skyrocketing divorce, illegitimacy, etc. As usual, a traditional patriarchal framework is far superior on the balance.
Well, I do have a semi-personal reason. My family is one generation removed from Orthodoxy. My father certainly had nothing good to say about it.
The "Orthodox doctors, ichthyologists, programmers etc." that you know must be modern Orthodox, which is itself a reaction to the haskalah and the rise of non-Orthodox Judaism. Modern Orthodoxy didn't exist as an option for most of our ancestors' existence, and it is not the source of growth, expansion and baal teshuvah within Orthodox Judaism today. If you get your wish, and I hope you don't, the Jewish people will be pushed into the arms of the ignorant ultra-Orthodox and hasidim. No more Nobel prizes and probably no more prosperity for Israel.
They are not Modern Orthodox. Just standard Orthodox Jews. In fact, I am proud to know Reb Shimon Dershowitz (http://fracman.golder.com/consulting/ResDersh.asp), who is NOT MO, yet somehow manages to be a world-renowned expert in the field of applied geology, with degrees from MIT and all. I have a difficult time imagining him being pushed into the arms of ignorant anything, and he's certainly not an exception in my community (except for in terms of his brilliance.) Eli Shkrob, who writes the Shkrobius blog, also appears to be Orthodox, yet somehow manages to be a biochemistry prof at U of Chicago. How you splain dat, my nigga?
My father had all kinds of things to say about all kinds of things, and as a child, I relied on his opinions heavily. As an adult, I took advantage of the opportunities to go and see for myself. Surprisingly, I found that many of his edicts did not reflect reality adequately. I would certainly feel like an ass were I to vociferously condemn all kinds of people based on secondhand information, only to find out that it was untrue. I might even double down to defend my position in order to avoid feeling like an ass.
Oy, I've had my own limited dealings with the ultra-Orthodox, and while not justification for vehement antipathy, let's just say they haven't been delightful. Your examples of Orthodox academics, Dershowitz and Shkrob, are outliers not typical of the community as a whole. But whatever, I doubt we're going to convince each other. Embrace Orthodoxy if you desire. I will not do so, and if my hypothetical children end up going goy, I won't fret over it.
Orthodoxy is a big world, not devoid of assholes, ignoramuses, bigots, etc. On the other hand, my experiences indicate that there are more morally and mentally outstanding people per capita there than in any other environment I've seen-and I started off with a major chip on my shoulder (I still spend a significant portion of my time with my Orthodox friends mocking the ludicrous logical hoops they have to jump through, even as I jump through them myself, or mocking various Orthodox eminences.) I would encourage you to re-engage with an open mind-worst thing that could happen is you'll end up where you started, and you might broaden your social circle a bit.
"It's easy to dismiss funny-looking guys with black hats and beards who rock back and forth when they talk and tell retarded Rebbe stories."
This is the problem I have with your attitude toward Orthodoxy and J's - it's a form of hypocrisy - it's a prescription that you would have others (maybe even your own descendants) follow but that you would never follow yourself because you can see how ridiculous it is on some level. We have been expelled from our shtetl gardens of Eden and we can never go back once we have consume the fruit of the tree of (Western secular) Knowledge.
K
That's an eloquent encapsulation, K.
K,
Says who that I would never follow it? Orthodoxy is a big tent. Some parts of it are ridiculous, some aren't. I am currently finding my place in it.
My contribution:
(1) The Rebbes tell retarded stories (2) Orthodox Food is Pfuuia.
One exception to (1): Dov Lior from Hebron. No known exceptions to (2).
Let me get this straight, the argument for entering into Orthodox Judaism, a sect of ignorant creationists, is the reproductive fitness of Orthodox Jews? Can somebody say "group evolutionary strategy"?
I don't know what you're surprised at-the Torah constantly lays out incentives for obeying its covenant and disincentives for disobeying in terms of the survival and multiplication of one's progeny. Though that is not THE argument, it's AN argument, and, of course, Creationism is not accepted by all the Orthodox.
The benefits of modernity rely heavily on science, which in turn unavoidably implies a thorough science education in a high proportion, perhaps a majority of society.
In turn, a good science education makes it very hard, if not impossible, to believe literally in the content and many of the arbitrary strictures of the bible (anybody's bible).
Religious skepticism, in turn, undermines the ability to procreate large families, which can then lead to failure to replenish the population, and hence a death spiral (vide Europa).
We need to find another way to both enable and motivate young people to have large families; other than the increasingly impossible task of expecting them to believe in magic, or limit their intellectual curiosity.
Because surprisingly few people seem to be motivated by any fear of extinction, nationalism may be the only realistic alternative; may it be a benign form of nationalism.
Anon.
Is reproduction an argument for Orthodoxy? I think so, although I never saw it formulated thus crudely. Judaism is a family religion, with many silly and infantile feasts and ceremonies, that is, designed for children. For example the synagogue reading of the Book of Esther, the Seder Pesach with readymade questions for four children.
If we consider the argument per contra, that non-reproduction is an argument for modernism, we see that it is absurd. Dying off is no argument for anything, specially not for us Jews, who are mandated to live.
If the trade off is Orthodoxy+survival vs modernism+extintion, I vote for Orthodoxy even if it frustrates a handful of potential Einsteins. Unfortunately I was indoctrinated in Communism, which ruined for me the hope of ever becoming a sincerely pious Jew.
"Mandated to live" by whom, J? Only if you believe in God is that truly a mandate. But the choice is not correctly framed as Orthodoxy vs. extinction anyway. It is (Orthodoxy + large population + probable poverty + no technological advancement) vs. (Secularism + smaller population + probable prosperity + some technological advancement). More than population size is at stake in adopting Orthodoxy.
Also, J, let's pretend for the sake of argument that Israel shifts to an ultra-Orthodox state with a Jewish population 50% larger than it is now. The seculars have fled, taking their technical skills with them. Do you really think that the Jew-haters of the world will stay meek in this situation? It would be an almost impossible-to-turn-down invitation to them to test Israeli mettle, and without vastly superior technology, Israel might lose.
In the US there was once a religious group called the Shakers. One of the tenets of their religion was celibacy for all. Now there are no Shakers. The future belongs to those who show up.
K
The Ministry of Health is in Orthodox hands and am not seeing any lowering of standards nor introduction of Biblical technologies. I have yet to hear the Orthodox imposing on doctors to cure lepra or skin diseases by incantations of the Cohanim and spreading ash, as ordered in the Bible. On the contrary, it is the non-religious (the cream of Israeli weapon design teams according to you) that have forced hospitals to deal in non-traditional alternative medicine aka witchcraft.
Seculars have a wider variety of beliefs (from atheist and scientifically oriented to spiritualist and crazy) than the Orthodox. Although Orthodoxy can theoretically accept atheism, it is heavily frowned upon in some circles. Needless to say, I support the non-crazy scientifically oriented secularists rather than spiritual SWPL types. If only all Jews followed that mode.
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