I'll start by establishing the fact that Jews are a protected, privileged minority in Hungary 2012 and live in safety and freedom. Yet those stupid Hungarians managed to paint themselves as a fascist, intolerant, racist - even Nazi nation. They dress like Nazis, they erect memorials to the Nazi column that retreated "heroically" from the Red Army assault of Budapest. The Germans are fighting the renaissaince of the Nazis in Germany itself (let specify: not because of the Holocaust but because the annihilation Nazis brought on their country) and they get an epyleptic seizure each time they watch Hungarian Nazis goose-marching in Budapest. But it is not only them. Louis Michel, a French speaking politician, is taking time from his human right affairs in the Belgian Congo to focus on Orban, the Hungarian leader. He is trying to bring him to submit to the Hague International Court of Justice, like those bloody Slovak generals. With Europe in financial turmoil, it is a bad time claim the Nazi heritage. Germany, already tired of banking half Europe, refuses to talk to Nazi Orban, so Hungary is unable to roll-over its debt. I can see a scenario where Hungary goes broke and is thrown out of the EU, Orban and his ministers delivered in chains to Hague and Hungary broken up once more. Burgerland and the Danube strip will be Austrian, the East - Romanian, and so on. Anyway, Hungarians are a foreign, non-European insert that belongs to their ancestral Ethelköz homeland in Central-East Asia rather than Europe. All in all they are not a bad people (although given to excessive self-pity while drinking).
14 comments:
No plans to bring Orbán to Hague Court, I think. What now is discussed in the media is that EU Comission may initiate a procedure against Hungary, but no Hague mention.But I know exactly nothing about Magyar politics, so I defer to your superior knowledge.
Javier
Javier,
Please do not defer to my or anyone's superior knowledge. There is knowledge and that's all, there is no "Superior" knowledge. The only Superiors are among the Jesuits. But yes, it seems that Human Rights Illuminated Master Loui
s Michel is working on Orban's case.
Despite the fact that they speak a central Asian language, autosomal genetic testing shows that the Hungarian population is genetically very similar to other central European populations. They usually cluster near south Germans on principal component plots. There have been ethnic Germans in Hungary for centuries, but I know of no evidence that the scientists involved in these studies skewed their results by testing thnic Germans.
It is difficult to imagine Hungarians as Bavarians. Anyway, language is the basic component of culture, and Hungarians dont share it with any neighbor.
Hungary is to be commended for rejecting the socialist EU and for asserting its national heritage and sovereignty! Support nationalism everywhere, not just in Israel.
Hungary is to be commended for rejecting the socialist EU and for asserting its national heritage and sovereignty! Support nationalism everywhere, not just in Israel.
Nationalism is not the opposite of socialism - in fact they are related - ever hear of National Socialism?
Jewish Nationalism exists only because toxic nationalism (such as Hungarian nationalism) existed before it, so you are confusing the cure with the disease.
K
Hungarian nationalism is toxic because it is directed AGAINST all neighboring peoples. There are historic reasons for it - Hungary lost a war against Romania which took over Hungarian heartland (Transylvania) and changed its ethnic character and today is Romanian. The same with all its other neighbors, the Rus in Ucraine, the Croats and Serbs in the South, the Slovaks in the North, they all have large Hungarian minorities in lands that are historically Hungary. And they hate the gypsy minority, although in the past they treated them very well. With such a mentality of revenge plus economic incompetence and poverty, it is difficult to be part of Europe.
At first sight it looks like this.
But studying their modus operandi something else shows up.
It's strong negotiations.
Hungarians took half of the Austrian Empire. They were under 20% of the population. Managed during WW1 to impose even the prime minister.
You mentioned Romania. For the last decade the hungarian party is part of every government. Completly controls a few ministeries - health department for example in an entirely hungarian business -and counties.They are 6%.
In Europe is a little bit harder because they are just 2% but they are very tough negociators and are not going to be cheated of a nice piece of the pie. Already succesfully opposed the foreign take over of their oil company and of the pension funds. Of course accepting them as partners is pretty difficult because it sets a dangerous precedent for the rest of EE but I'd still bet on hungarians.
In fact I'd bet that not only they are not going to be robbed of anything, but they will take a nice and large piece of the pie. Of course after a lot of noise, threats, pressures etc. These are very very tough negociations and stakes are pretty high for western interests and for their hungarian partners. Lots of noise to be heard but Hungary will prevail in the end like it always does. Westerners will share in the end. No other outcome will be accepted.
Prof. J.,
Only Hungarians believe that Transylvania was always purely Magyar. The obvious question is who lived there before the entrance of the Magyars into Europe.
Basically, the Hungarian account requires that (1) Romanian ethnogenesis (the fusion of Dacians with Roman occupiers) took place within Transylvania (2) all the proto-Romanians left Transylvania before the Magyar conquest or were driven out shortly thereafter (3) by the 16th century, when the "Law of the Three Nations" was enacted, so many Romanians had returned that they were the majority and remained in the majority until Trianon. Recall that in 1918, Romanians formed an absolute majority of the population of Transylvania.
It's quite possible that Magyars, whether Szeckler or Hungarian, formed the majority in Transylvania at various points. On the other hand, by the time of Trianon, they were indisputably in the minority, with Jews and Germans making up the balance.
None of this is of any more than academic interest given the immediate situation, but perhaps you might be interested in reading this piece about doing business in Hungary today: http://andorjakab.blog.hu/2012/01/06/this_is_why_i_don_t_give_you_a_job
(The Hungarian original is here: http://jakabandor.blog.hu/2011/07/27/tolem_ezert_nem_kapsz_munkat ).
Best,
s.n.
At the intellectual level I do understand that Transylvania's population was never 100% Hungarian or Székely, but at a deeper emotional level I cannot but feel that the Erdély - Transylvania is the heart of historical Hungary. One cannot erase what learned in the cradle.
Hungarian co-ruled the Empire, and were hated twice as much as the Austrians. They have not given up their dream of Great Hungary.
Demography cancels the dream of Great Hungary. Anyway if you subject the Szekely , what you get as hungarians were a small minority always. Like poles in Ukraine before Hmelnitski. A feudal upper class - not exactly the same case, lots of peasants also, but compared to the total population quite an irrelevant number. Urban population was german.
What is most interesting is they are formidable negociators. Neither in the empire nor in todays Romania hungarians got great positions by being hmmm brave or having any sort of succes on a battlefield.
That is why what you see now with all the noise between western interests and hungarian ones is just tough negociations. Now probably hungarians will aparently partially back down, but in fact they won't and will come back. They are relentless. And in the end accepting Hungary as a more or less equal partner is not a big loss for the west. With or without hungarian pension money profits and bonuses will not suffer - just an example. Just let the those annoying little bastards keep their bloody euros.
And the path towards partnership is too hard for others to follow. The rest will remain subjects, like in the empire. Hungarians won't.
Prof. J, teo,
Hungarians have something in common with Jews. Both tried battlefield bravery for a long time, but when crushed by numbers, they learned other ways of getting what they wanted.
Jews have, after a long hiatus, gone back to succeeding via battlefield bravery, so perhaps the strange career of the Magyar race will also take unexpected twists...
-s.n.
Hungarians have undemonstrated battlefield potential. The Russians beat them every time.
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