Our leading liberal has a front page article on HaAretz whose objective is prove the world that he, the pure David Grossman, is not like us, those detestable Israeli Jews. An Arab criminal was caught by the police after infiltrating from Gaza into Israel and was taken for a ride in closed police cars and verbally treated unkindly. Grossman feels that he cannot live anymore in a such an unliberal country, he feels that the air is polluted and he cannot breath here.
Liberals in general are well to do middle class, who feel secure in their situations and so they tend to dismiss the fears of more conservative folk. Really, what can a bloody Arab criminal infiltrator do to mighty Israel? If he is left to roam free in Israel, will Israel collapse? Me Met? = Who died? he asks, in the sense what is the big deal with one little Arab "refugee" in addition to the million and half we already have living here? Why cannot be simply admitted in Israel? Why are we so evil? How can an ethical person live here with these bestial Jews?
My temperament is even more liberal than Grossman, who after all has fought Israel's wars and lost his son Uri (pic) when he was killed by the Arabs. The difference is in the perspective: he perceives Israel as a very strong, stable, robust State, that nothing can harm, while I see it as a struggling miniature refugee community permanently menaced by worldwide boycotts and condemnations, and by hundreds of thousands (yes!) missiles and shortly by nuclear weapons.
My heart bleeds with Grossman, but I want to live.
Too bad we Zionists want to be like all other peoples, and be allowed to do the same things they do. "Be allowed" is a slip of my tongue, what we want is not having to ask for the permission of anyone and never have to apologize for being alive.
28 comments:
All other peoples? I suppose you mean all non-white Europeans. Of course, "all other peoples" may have included white Europeans when Zionism started... but no longer.
Alas, perhaps you are too white! Maybe you could improve your moral worth by getting those Ethiopian Jew or other black genes mixed thoroughly into your population.
Ethiopians, having been converted into Jews, are being integrated, if that is what you meant. When we all carry a rich load of Hottentot genes, then our moral standing will be exactly like theirs.
"The difference is in the perspective: he perceives Israel as a very strong, stable, robust State, that nothing can harm, while I see it as a struggling miniature refugee community permanently menaced by worldwide boycotts and condemnations, and by hundreds of thousands (yes!) missiles and shortly by nuclear weapons"
Hmmmmmm.
Maybe .... you got it in reverse.
Maybe G sees Israel extremly vulnerable ansd menaced. So it has to be very carefull when using violence.
Going berserker is usually a priviledge of the big and strong.
US can legislate torture. Who's going to boycott and condemn them?
Russia is weaker so they have to be a little bit more carefull but not by much. Anyway who's suicidal enough to threaten them with rockets and boycotts? Some condemnations yes, but they respond with their own and that's all.
Like - you killed some wahhabi terrorists in the caucasus, strike that , some brave noble freedom fighters.
Yeah? And you tortured some pure innocent souls in Guantanamo. Now we are even.
End of story.
Israel is tiny and vulnerable. So boycotts and threats are real dangers.
""Be allowed" is a slip of my tongue, what we want is not having to ask for the permission of anyone and never have to apologize for being alive."
It's simple. Grow big and strong. And strategically secure.
It's not that liberals are non violent. They justify the use of violence better. Beating is easy. But doing it and being a peacefull and kind person forced against your will to "kill them all" is not easy. It involves a lot of inteligence and planing. And self control.
The absolute apex of this behaviour is the creator of the modern system. President Roosevelt.
Somehow that kind innocent soul managed to stabilize US society for decades, to kill all enemies, build a world system with US on top etc.
But everyone cheated him , he was such an innocent soul , all took advantage of him. Somehow they ended up dead, or on the internal stage out of history, divine justice probably.
The mastermind of evil - stalin - well cheated FDR and took... Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria - oh my he took Bulgaria - and some other little provinces. FDR well being innocent took the rest of the planet. All of the rest.
He was a master of violence. A true god of war. But being smart he made himself a man of peace and kindness. Burning everything in sight with a tremendous fire power, creating and using the absolute weapon - he died before firing the A- bomb, but that's a detail, he even managed to remain clean of that by retiring in time - well those are minor details.
G does not have a death wish. Just takes justifications very seriously.
I used to read Haaretz untill I got completly bored by it. They are the human face of Israel. You don't appreciate them at their real value. They are not a liability for the country, but a very important asset. Sympathetic people from the outside can relate with them easily.
That is why any foreigner will quote them. It's the most important media outlet of Israel for the outside world. And in a positive way for Israel.
A simple north korean approach : "we good, enemy bad, shoot them all" is not necessarily usefull.
Think of them on the media/propaganda stage compared to others like the difference between FDR and the other two war lords - Djugasvili and Adolf. That is the difference between Haaretz and the rest. I think you miss an outside perspective on the area.
(By the way Djugasvilli was pretty sofisticated and played the liberation card to the limit. And the innocence and victimhood one. But anglos were much better and managed to throw him out from the victim's boat.)
The West is full of cretins like this, and I don't necessarily mean Jewish liberals either.
It is a disease of luxury; the luxury of being too secure, too complacent, and frankly, in today's world, too bloody stupid.
Anon.
It's not a disease.
It's a way of minimising potential negative consequences by means which cost nothing. Talk is cheap.
We live in a dog eat dog world. And the guy who owns the fracking show is never ever stupid/complacent/cretin/too secure or whatever. He is - results prove it - the smartest, most efficient at projecting violence, the most vicious dog in the hood.
Otherwise he would be dead not top dog. Is as simple as that.
Just that raw violence and viciousness is never enough in order to obtain and keep power. And to enjoy it.
That is why smart people never invade they liberate, why is much better called Right to Protect -R2P then Right to Plunder. It's a problem of brains. Stupid evil ones attack, smart good ones are always defensive.
As for Anonymous I think an axiom is very usefull and needed:
Top dog is never ever stupid or complacent. If he becomes one like that, he ends up an underdog very very fast. All the rest are details.
My problem with Grossman and HaAretz is that they may win. HaAretz for example is fighting a serious war against the police unit in charge of dealing with illegal immigrants. They follow them and publish heart-breaking stories of little girls who were born (illegally) in Israel and speak only Hebrew and dream of serving in Tzahal, who are being thrown into the West African jungles to be raped by AIDS infected child soldiers. Pictures of crying beautiful black children. They are effecive and they may win.
Every weekend they have a page describing a family. 9 of 10 are unconventional families, that is, a single Jewish girl who adopted an African child, two lesbians, a homosexual couple, a deeply religious AfroAmerican family from Mississipi who is in the sheep business like the Prophets(?). Never a "normal" Jewish family.
My problem is that they may win and Israel become not only the gay capital of the world (that we are) but the torch holder of liberal death values of the West. Then I shall not be able to breath here anymore.
I was talking about the liberal west. So no missunderstanding be made.
About this post "My problem with Grossman and HaAretz is that they may win.etc My problem is that they may win and Israel become not only the gay capital of the world (that we are) but the torch holder of liberal death values of the West. Then I shall not be able to breath here anymore."
Pretty unpleasant. I perfectly understand you. That's the reason I can't watch TV.
I was thinking before having children to becoe part of a religious group - any of them - in
order to protect my kids from all this social decay. But I can't stand the religious ones either.
Don't worry about them winning. 2 personal predictions follow.
1. They won't win. Jerusalem will.
Look at maternity yards stats for checking. Yahweh's followers will eliminate by sheer numbers and will to survive the deviations from belief.
2. You won't like it if it will happen in your life time. The religious ones are even harder to bear.
The only salvation is at personal level I think. Always - history attests to this - society goes from one extreme to another. And it always throws your way - and your family's way - a lot of hardships and bad things. You just have to avoid what activists - be they political ones, priest, human rights activists whatever all the same - throw you way.
Prof. J.,
My sympathies. I hope that Israel comes to its senses.
It is sometimes hard for me to believe that Israeli liberals "eat their own dogfood" on this question, because in America, many Jews are good liberals except on the narrow question of Israeli security and ethnic composition. (I think this also explains why American paleoconservatives flirt with anti-Semitism: they don't hate Jews qua Jews, but as a bloc of liberal hypocrites who preach multiculturalism for thee but not for me.)
It is depressing to hear that your liberals are really this crazy. It shows that even a nation on the brink, as I believe you correctly think Israel to be, can be ridden through with liberal insanity on the immigration question.
Best,
s.n.
J's life would be better if he gave up that insidious fishwrap.
I cant. Wife subscribes to it.
Why is is that great wealth leads to suicide-liberalism? Look at Buffett, Gates, etc; how can such smart individuals systematically act against the interests of their own people?
I see it happens in Israel as well.
Surely it is a syndrome.
Anon.
of course it is a well know syndrome . It is connected with guilt.
K
We have the same thing here-check out the website Crimes of the Times. In fact, your official communists are merely aping American official communists. My hope is that once the center rots out, all the appendages will likewise wither.
"Why is is that great wealth leads to suicide-liberalism? Look at Buffett, Gates, etc; how can such smart individuals systematically act against the interests of their own people?
I see it happens in Israel as well.
Surely it is a syndrome."
It is a syndrom. A social one.
The assyrian elites did the same.
The roman ones the same.
When aristocracy becomes godlike they disconnect from the masses. There are no " our people " any more. Gods don't have fellow countrymen.
The enormous imperial tributes - enormous in a relative sense, compared to the society creating the empire - are disproportionately apropriated by the elites. And this wealth comming from outside of the social system drives a wedge between the elite and the masses.
It happens all the time be it spanish, portuguese, hellenistic empires or whatever.
If you want the anglo society to survive in it's present form you should pray for the destruction of the empire - it means catastrophic military collapse due to economic crisis or large scale military defeat.
Or if you want the perks of the empire then you should accept the social changes.
Can't have it both ways in real world.
Do not take it as a political statement. It's just the way things work on Planet Earth. Can't have the universal empire and the anglo republic in the same time. Sorry for the bad news.
PS. It amazes me how you can call the top oligarchs "liberals". There is nothing liberal about those guys. Except the names of course. Gates is as liberal as Kim Eung - NK's new boss - is hmmmm communist.
Talking about brotherhood of man while grabing everything in sight for you and your group makes one neither a liberal nor a communist.
It's true that running an empire is expensive. It's also true that NOT running an empire is even more expensive in the long run. It's tough work but someone has to take up the white man's burden (as Kipling says) or the world will fall into chaos - it will be Somalia all over the place. When the Roman empire broke down, a 1000 year dark age followed. Imagine what the world would be like today if we were 1000 years down the road in technological progress, if the Renaissance had begun in 400 AD and not 1400.
K
Gates and Buffett don't act against the interest of "their own." They're a step ahead of you.
The purpose of the Gates Foundation's work in Africa (for example) is to bring the birthrate there down to sustainable (i.e. stable) levels. Paradoxically, the most effective way to do this is to increase the likelihood of a child surviving to adulthood, while simultaneously making birth control available. Their analysis is that when mothers are confident that their children will survive, they will choose to have fewer children.
Naturally, the Foundation mostly publicizes "saving lives." But they are explicit about "sustainability" from time to time.
"Naturally, the Foundation mostly publicizes "saving lives." But they are explicit about "sustainability" from time to time."
Know about the subject. They take a lot of heat from lunatics with conspiracy theories. I even saw the subject approched in media in a most abject way.
It's clear that sub-saharan africa can not accomodate billions of people. And population growth will stop either by lower birth rate or by famines and massacres. Those foundations are trying to prevent the second option.
Looking at the results hmmmm they won't succed. It's too late.
How can media - the lunatics are a different breed - spin this and cook a sort of misterious conspiracy says a lot about their morals.
It is true that one of the goals of the Gates Foundation, and people like Hilary Clinton, is to bring western levels of sterility to places like Africa, Haiti and truth be told, Afghanistan.
But both Islam and tribal Africa are fecundity engines, at their very heart; and it will simply not be possible to contain their populations in anything other than a vigorous Malthusian fashion.
The Foundation-types have, in this respect, made the most fundamental miscalculation here, and it is my suspicion that this sort of arrogant stupidity underlies the opening of the West to a flood of African and Middle Eastern immigration - ie, the belief that these immigrants would just adopt western standards of sub-replacement fertility.
Sadly, there are, I also believe, those who always understood these central truths, but who nonetheless motivated and enabled mass immigration, with the express intent of destroying the white ethnostates like England and Holland. But there is no shortage of fools, even highly placed, always ready to be suckered into various forms of "internationalism".
Sic transit gloria mundi.
Anon.
Afro american fertility is at 2 per woman under replacement. Due to quite unhealthy life style this is well bellow replacement. In afro caraibean is the same and in most developed African countries like RSA is very close. Without migrants they would reduce in number, both in US and RSA. Except very religious and closed countries like KSA and very primitive ones like Afghanistan fertility is well bellow replacement in muslim countries and falling like a rock.
The pattern look very simmilr with med Countries like Spain, Greece Italy of ultra low fertility. In urban Tehran is probably like in Berlin already and going fast towards Milan and Torino.
And talking about mathusianism is very is on the web. In reality it's something so horrible not even adolf's einzatsgruppen were able to contemplate. It is horror beyond imagination in practice.
Immigrants DO adopt Western fertility levels (or close to them)eventually. The problem is that it takes a couple of generations and that in the meantime you have changed the cultural composition of your country (and the IQ profile) possibly for the worse. Of course some immigration stories have happy endings - US technical & engineering schools would be 1/2 empty at this point if we didn't have Asians to fill them.
K
"US technical & engineering schools would be 1/2 empty at this point if we didn't have Asians to fill them."
That's misleading; America is, I believe, #1 or #2 in engineers per capita, and there is a glut of engineers on the US market.
As for scientists, I suggest you read Dr. Katz's "Don't Become a Scientist" (http://wuphys.wustl.edu/~katz/scientist.html) and Phil Greenspun's "Women in Science" (http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science). In brief, both say that research science is a dog's life.
The huge numbers of East and South Asian engineers and scientists in America is best explained as a visa-driven phenomenon. It's a bad idea for most American-born engineers to get a Ph.D, because it's not worth the deferred income and experience. But it's a great idea for an Indian engineer to get an American Ph.D, because that gives him a visa, a stipend that's 3x-5x the Indian market salary, and several years guaranteed employment in a position connected to American professional employment pipelines.
Best,
s.n.
Greenspun was writing at a time when other sectors were very hot - finance, law, etc. The equation has changed somewhat, not because conditions for academics have gotten better but because the alternatives have gotten worse.
K
K, the point is that any career is better than a science Ph.D. where you are 38 and doing your 2nd post-doc. Assuming you're an American, anyway. For Indians, it's a great deal. Why respond to Greenspun and not Katz, by the way?
-s.n.
There's a bit of a paradox here. Grenspun points out that every science student imagines himself a professor because all he sees are professors and not the much greater # who wash out. Everyone thinks that I will be the one who makes it to the top of the pyramid. A poignant version of this is that every black teenager I have ever spoken to has totally unrealistic expectations - they are all going to the NBA (no matter how short or fat they are) or are going to be rappers (or doctors and lawyers even though they can barely speak).
But the paradox is this - if EVERYONE saw the light and quit science, where would our scientists come from? And don't tell me India or China - they have produced some fine scientists, but I don't want to leave science entirely in their hands.
K
K,
"[I]f EVERYONE saw the light and quit science, where would our scientists come from? And don't tell me India or China - they have produced some fine scientists, but I don't want to leave science entirely in their hands."
If everyone saw the light and stopped going into science, presumably wages and other compensation (e.g., some slight degree of job security for men in their late 30's who've worked like dogs) would rise to the point that they became attractive again. Why wouldn't scientific employment obey supply and demand?
We embarked on this aside when I responded to your claim that "US technical & engineering schools would be 1/2 empty at this point if we didn't have Asians to fill them." I said that this was misleading because (1) science is horribly oversubscribed in America relative to demand and (2) science is a back-door visa for Chinese and Indians; obviously, while (2) is the case, (1) will prevail. So, American schools wouldn't be "1/2 empty" at all, certainly not due to laziness or absence of technical competence.
-s.n.
I think you are mistaking science/technical education at the undergraduate level w. PhD programs. In my original post I never mentioned grad school. There's lots you can do w. an undergrad engineering degree. A science BS is a gateway to a lot of different careers.
K
I think you are mistaking science/technical education at the undergraduate level w. PhD programs. In my original post I never mentioned grad school. There's lots you can do w. an undergrad engineering degree. A science BS is a gateway to a lot of different careers.
K
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