Szegedi (pic) was caught in the net: His father is a Volkish Hungarian artisan (specializing in hand carving of peasant wood cradles and rocking horses) and deeply Christian, Csanad was brought up as a Nationalist-Hungarian Christian, but his Grandmother was Magda Klein, a Holocaust survivor, and his other ancestors were provincial Jews that - like many other Hungarian Jews - converted, changed names and deleted their roots. In an interview, Szegedi proclaimed that he has no ambition to become Jobbik's Number One, as if the position were still open for one like him.
I am sorry for cousin Csanád. He is a talented yid who grew up in a Volk environment and become an important politician. I'm almost sure he focused on antisemitism because as a Jew in the province he felt very vulnerable. I remember living in constant terror in Jászberény. It is a (political) tragedy for him (and for Jobbik) that his ancestors were ultra-Orthodox Yiddish speaking (and dancing, pic) Jews. On the other hand, he is lucky to have inherited a Yiddische Kopf.
This tragedy proves my late Father's thesis that assimilation (in addition of being fake and dishonorable) - never works. He never changed his Jewish name and identity. After the 1956 revolution, he read his "kader" (party file) and saw that he had been classified as "clerical" and denied promotions for enemy class origin and presumed political tendency. He said that the honest thing to do for Jews was to be full fledged synagogue-going Jews even if that means the loss of professional advance, or to make aliyah to Israel. He did not live to come to Israel, but he was a honest Jew all his life. I am trying to be like him.
PS.: Anyone giving one second of thought to the name "Szegedi Csanád" would suspect that it is fake Hungarian. Because it is TOO Hungarian. It is like a Pakistani Brit calling himself Leofric of Mercia, or Offa of Wessex or Eorpwold from Anglia. There are no such things in our days.
45 comments:
I don't feel sorry for him. Screw him and his racist ideology - he deserves to get tangled in his own web. I have just returned from visit to Auschwitz where I saw where "racial consciousness" leads. We all belong to the same race - human. You can be proud of your origins (though chances are they are more mixed genetically than you think they are) but once you start scapegoating some other group as the source of your problems (as Jobbik does), you might as well start pouring the foundations for the gas chambers. At some point the logic becomes inevitable - problems have to be eliminated.
The Soviets saw religion as incompatible with Party membership. The party was a scientific party and religion was superstition. You can't believe in Zeus and be a Christian priest, you can't believe in God and be a good party member. Their idea was to get rid of it altogether because it had been such a destructive force. As usual they were wrong but I understand where the impetus came from.
Unfortunately humans are programmed to be tribal but with education you can overcome this by defining the tribe broadly enough - most Americans, even religious Christians, don't consider themselves as more American than Jewish Americans. If you asked kids of my children's generation about this, they wouldn't even comprehend the question itself. Anyone is "American" after a single generation but the Jews were in Hungary for 1000+ years and yet somehow they were still not "Hungarian".
K
Entangled in his ideology. To his neck.
Entangled in his ideology. To his neck.
K's post is hilarious. Judaism is a tribal blood religion that hardly accepts converts, Israel discriminates against Africans, Arabs (both Muslim and Christian) and segregates, even prosecuting an Arab man for copulating with a Jewish woman. But he's here to say that white Europeans by no means have a right to do the same thing and protect their own people, culture, and racial heritage.
You're wrong about America, by the way. You will never be as American as the old-line WASP's who actually founded the country and gave it its character. This is why Jews resent the WASPs so much.
Jews should assimilate (and that means marry non-Jews) or go live in Israel.
This tragedy proves my late Father's thesis that assimilation (in addition of being fake and dishonorable) - never works
No, this situation does not prove that. Only a couple of generations have gone by since the conversion event. Mr. Szegedi therefore still has significant Jewish ancestry. After 3 or 4 generations of admixture, Jewish ancestry may still be detected, but would be very dilute. The individuals with that level of admixture would be mostly Hungarian (or whatever ethno-nationality into which the Jewish ancestor assimilated), and it would be risible to categorize him as a Jew. So what the situation really shows is that it is difficult for a Jew to assimilate and achieve full acceptance and that even the next couple of generations may have some difficulties. I suspect that Mr. Szegedi's difficulties on account of ancestry would have been much less were he not so politically prominent.
Quite so. Mr Szegedi would have less difficulties if he followed his father's calling of hand carving and painting folk toys. Or working in a pig farm in the countryside.
Yet the evil winds may become stronger and even modest positions may be untenable for "Jews". Assimilation is theoretically easy, yet Jews cannot avoid to stand out. In elementary school I was always the first to raise my hand and answer the teacher's question, I knew that it harmed me socially yet I did it.
Maybe among WASPs assimilation is easier.
K,
You're all about how "we all belong to the same race" except when you are writing about blacks. The Nazis had similar contempt for Jews.
I have no contempt for blacks or any other race. A functioning society is like an ecosystem with different races and groups fulfilling different functions. Or like an orchestra (BTW, in modern orchestras the string players are mostly Asian women). When you create a mono-culture of all one race, nature is out of balance and the society functions poorly. And when you try to make all races and genders fulfill the same function or pretend that we are all exactly the same - Jewish female football players, black nuclear physicists, non-gay fashion designers, etc. it doesn't work either. To say that the races and genders are different is not the same as saying that one is better than any other.
Ukraine has been very effective at protecting its "racial heritage" - they killed or expelled almost everyone who was not Ukrainian - not just Jews but Poles, Germans, etc. Now they are (some of them) sorry that they did it. L'vov went from being a prominent regional capital to a backwater frozen in time. My mother's shtetl went from being a thriving small town to a place devoid of all businesses. Their GDP is at African levels. Their real "cultural heritage" was as a multi-cultural society. Thru their insane racism they fucked it up and now they have shit. Racially pure shit. It is the Zimbabwe of Europe and the fact that they are all white hasn't helped them a bit. I invite all skin-heads, Nazis, etc. to move to Ukraine so you can live in poverty with your fellow pure white people.
K
You're all about how "we all belong to the same race" except when you are writing about blacks. The Nazis had similar contempt for Jews.
The Nazis contempt for Jews was not the same as K's or HBD'ers view of blacks. The Nazis viewed Jews not just as racially other/inferior but as significant competition and (at the world level) powerful adversaries.
K,
Moldova or Albania have better claims than Ukraine on being the Zimbabwe of Europe. I daresay if forced to live in one of the two undesirable places, you'd choose Ukraine. The Bolsheviks and the Nazis share a lot of blame for Ukrainian poverty and dysfunction. As for the departure of non-Ukrainians from Ukraine, at least as far as the Jews are concerned, the Nazis again share much of the blame (and I am aware of the nastiness in the 17th century under Khmelnitsky).
Trust me, the Ukrainians eagerly collaborated with the Nazis. The Ukrainian camp guards were unparalleled in their brutality. The Ukrainians couldn't wait to kill the Jews and get their hands on their assets. In many cases they acted without need of prompting from the Nazis. In addition, in the Ukrainian's minds, Jews were identified with the Soviets, whom they despised from the '39-41 Soviet occupation, so they welcomed the Nazis with open arms. In the prewar period, the Ukrainians filled the role of the peasant class, with Polish landlords and Jewish merchants so the chance to overturn the social pyramid and put themselves on top was irresistible. Unfortunately, as Zimbabwe shows, seizing assets and being able to utilize them effectively in the long run are two different things.
Having the Russians around for 50 years didn't help but so did Lithuania and they are well ahead - I saw more Soviet era cars on the road in Ukraine in 5 minutes than you'd see in Lithuania in a year. L'viv is like the Havana of Europe.
I won't argue with you as to what is the crappiest place in Europe but Ukraine is in the top 5. Remember this is a country endowed with rich agricultural land - once the bread basket of Europe. Under proper management, this place would be as rich as France.
K
I think Moldavia is shittier a place than Ucraine. Kishinev was a thriving GErman-Jewish metropolis, today is a dangerous slum. Progress is not inevitable, history is not linear.
K,
Japan and Iceland are racially pure and are doing quite well, and always have.
K wants Israel to be racially pure and everyone else to be a "multicultural" society under the thumb of international Jewish finance.
European white countries have historically done very well as being exclusively European, and discriminating against Jews.
The U.S., where K lives, has not been racially pure since the earliest colonial days because of the presence of the Native Americans and because the original British-descended colonists imported large numbers of African slaves. Moreover, the British-descended colonists didn't chase out all people not of British origin who came to settle including Germans, French, and Jews (small numbers of mostly Sephardic Jews in colonial days).
As for the bit about "international Jewish finance" driving multiculturalism, I didn't realize that Peter Sutherland, a pro-immigration evangelist if ever there were one, was Jewish. Even NYC-based banks with Jewish names have so many non-Jews working at them that clearly plenty of non-Jews agree with their mission. I suspect that the only mission those firms have is to make as much money as possible. We don't live in the days of Jacob Schiff funding the Bolsheviks (supporting the Bolsheviks, by the way, was also official policy of the war-time imperial German government in order to destablize Russia).
I'm glad our anti-Semitic friend knows what I want Israel to be. Last time I checked, Israel had large non-Jewish minorities - Arabs, Christians, etc. and they weren't asking me anyway.
I do want everyone to be under the thumb of Zionist bankers though, for old time sake. Jacob Schiff would have known better than to lend to "diverse" housing borrowers under the "Community Reinvestment Act", Greeks, Spaniards, etc.
The Jews in E. Europe got there because they were invited by the local leadership. They realized that their peasant subjects were as dumb as bricks and had no aptitude for trade.
K
The selective elimination of the Kulaks did not help the average IQ in Russia/Ukraine, I am afraid.
Communism, and its architects and perpetrators, has a lot to answer for; but those responsible will not now face justice.
Anon.
K and J,
Do you not see the blatant hypocrisy of your attitudes?
I don't begrudge you or bear any ill-will towards you. But if we cannot agree that this hypocrisy exists, there is not much common ground between us. There can be no real dialogue. There has to amicable parting and separation.
Buh-bye. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
K
As for me, I dont see the blatant hypocresy of my attitude. As we say: Que Vaya con Dios.
I am sincerely sorry for Mr Szegedi, brought up as a Hungarian Nationalist antisemite, who suddenly discovers that he is not what he believed all his life (that is what he says, but he must have some premonitions)and that his political career has been ruined because of his race. How will he show himself in Jobbik assemblies? How can he go on representing the true Hungarian spirit in the European Parliament?
His is a typical Hungarian Jewish tragedy. I hope some young Jewish writer will take up the subject and make a screenplay of it. The drama needs to end in catharsis, so in the third and final act, Szegedi starts a voyage of discovery of his roots that lead him through Ucraine and North East Hungary to Meah Shearim in Jerusalem, where he has a revelation. Attacked by holy delirium, he picks up a broken glass in the Kotel and circumcises himself while singing in languages. With rivers of blood flowing from his member, he is carried off to the hospital where he registers under the name of his great-grand father Moyshe Rothschwanc. The play ends with a Hassidic wedding tancz.
You shouldn't give up your day job to write screenplays, J. I doubt sincerely that Mr. Szegedi is going to become an observant Jew. What's in it for him? He has too many enemies among Hungarian Jews and leftists. He'll probsbly just keep a low profile in Hungary, and we'll never hear much about him again.
Jobbik may keep him as a walking proof that THEY hate Jews but are not racists.
Which may be near the truth. Hungarian antisemites are of the gentlemanly British variety, unlike the Ucrainian and Latvian criminals.
That's interesting, J. So your ancestors did well by picking better gentiles to live amongst. Maybe that's why the Hungarian Jews were so much more intelligent and productive per capita than the Polish, Ukrainian and Lithuanian Jews?
There was a true story not long ago of some Polish skinhead who discovered he was really Jewish and became a Hasid, so that storyline is taken already. The Lubvatichers married him off to some other convert so there must have been a wedding dance too. Truth is stranger than fiction.
Were the Arrow Cross who threw Jews into the freezing Danube British gentlemen too?
K,
I'd like to understand where you're coming from.
Are you against gentile peoples or nations having their own homogeneous identity and nation? What about white gentile peoples or nations? If not, why not?
I am certainly against ethnic cleansing. I also think it's a bad idea. Even the Japanese (which BTW has a large Korean minority) are not doing so hot anymore. Monocultures are alway lacking in robustness. I think that Europe and the Middle East was better off under the Habsburgs
and Ottomans than today, for the same reason that it would be a bad idea for Arkansas to be an independent country. The Nationalism that arose in the 19th century (and this includes Zionism) was always based on a highly warped and selective view of the history of Europe where boundaries and people were ever shifting and intermingled.
K
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/opinion/sunday/wheres-charlemagne-when-we-need-him.html?ref=opinion
A timely editorial in praise of the Hapsburgs. I'm not sure I agree with his conclusions otherwise - Europe already has a defacto lingua franca - it's called English. The idea of a "European museum" is also a joke. We already have such museums - the Louvre, the British Musuem, etc. More Eurovision will not prevent a 3rd world war. As usual it's much easier to identify problems than it is to propose effective solutions.
K
Mr Csanad looks like a descendant one of the Central Asians who periodically visited devastation on Europe since time immemorial. I think if you go back far enough everyone would have some Jewish connection.
Ivan
"I think if you go back far enough everyone would have some Jewish connection"
I doubt this. There is some overlap between Jews and non-Jewish Hungarians but not much really. There was some assimilation by Jews in Hungary starting in the 19th century but before that little. And it's not like the overall population somehow spun off from the Jews in ancient times - that's just not the genetic history.
But of course we are all distant cousins. If you go back enough generations you would need to have trillions of ancestors and the entire human population was only a few at some point (and experienced later bottlenecks ) so we all have overlaps in our family trees if you go back far enough - 50,000 years or whatever. We also have 99% of the same DNA as chimps, so small differences in DNA lead to big differences in characteristics.
K
Mr Csanad looks like a descendant one of the Central Asians...
You are misled by the uniform.
Hungarian Jews had very little Hungarian mixture, first because they were relatively newcomers in Hungary (we are mostly Galitzianers) and second because they were very religious.
As for the Hungarian people, they have little Central Asian blood left in them. The country was devastated and depopulated several times in the last thousand years, and the current inhabitants arrived, like the Jews, during the Austro-Hungarian double kingdom. The Austrians sent many Saxons to colonize Hungary. The last original Hungarians are the Szekely minority in Transylvania.
I am certainly against ethnic cleansing. I also think it's a bad idea. Even the Japanese (which BTW has a large Korean minority) are not doing so hot anymore.
Who said anything about "ethnic cleansing"?
You may think it's a bad idea and it may not be your preference for your preferred environment. But others may think it's not a bad idea and may prefer it, or they may think it's bad, but may prefer it as better than alternatives. There's no reason there should be a universal standard imposed on everyone.
Japan's Korean minority is small. And Japan does better than most of the world.
Re: ethnic cleansing - most white countries are no longer ethnically pure, if they ever were. So if a white country wants to have "their own homogeneous identity and nation" then the only way to do this is thru some form of "ethnic cleansing". At worst, this will be accomplished thru murder as in Nazi Germany or post-Tito Yugoslavia. At best, it will be done in the way that the Polish interwar anti-Semites proposed (until they joined up with the Germans) - make the life of the targeted minority so miserable that they will leave of their own accord. This rarely works because people will take a lot of abuse before they abandon what they perceive as their homeland (even if others don't). So you ultimately resort to violence anyway (including state violence where you round people up off the streets and deport them. Maybe including little children who have never even been to their "home" country and don't speak its language.) Either way is not pretty. Remember that you are talking about human beings here and not cattle.
I agree that in may cases it would have been a better idea to have had border security and not to have let these people into "white" countries to begin with (keeping in mind BTW that the US was never a "white" country because from the earliest days the whites willingly imported other races as cheap or slave labor). But once they are present in and somewhat (even semi) integrated into a society, it become difficult to dislodge them humanely.
K
J, your fears over Hungarians are a fantasy.
Germany is the new ruler of Central and Northern Europe. Hungary may vote for whatever party they lkke but German bankers will be the actual power behind the throne.
But once they are present in and somewhat (even semi) integrated into a society, it become difficult to dislodge them humanely.
Whatever it takes to expel them from the UK and elsewhere must be done:
http://www.tmonews.com/2012/07/angry-t-mobile-uk-customer-destroys-store-before-police-arrest-him/
Whatever it takes to expel them from the UK and elsewhere must be done:
btw, I am Jewish.
One also has a duty of humanity to one's own people, to future generations who will not exist unless one makes it possible for them to exist.
The true evil of those responsible for mass immigration is that it is now impossible to avoid inhumanity to at least some people, and maybe all people.
Anon.
The cruel post WWII forced migration aka ethnic cleansing of Europe, establishing ethnically homogeneous states, produced 70 years of peace. Whoever decided it, it was the right thing to do.
The cruel post WWII forced migration aka ethnic cleansing of Europe, establishing ethnically homogeneous states, produced 70 years of peace. Whoever decided it, it was the right thing to do.
Gotta break some eggs to make an omelette, eh? I don't buy it - cruelty is cruelty, whether practiced against Jews or Germans or Palestine Arabs or whoever. Is there less ethnic tension now in Croatia because they have killed anyone who wasn't a Croat? Sure, but this is a high price to pay. Too high.
K
The duty to humanity thing is easily abused. Those who herded women and little children into the gas chambers were convinced that they were performing a service to humanity and to their own people. They were aware of the cruelty of their acts but they felt obligated to perform them as a service to future generations.
There are time when men, as agents of the state, are required to perform cruel and violent acts and even to take lives - pilots drop bombs, snipers fire their rifles, etc. But you have to stop and think twice, three times to be sure that what you are doing is morally justified, lest you end up in the dock at some future Nuremberg. Merely mouthing slogans about service to your people or to "humanity" will not suffice.
K
On the other hand, sitting back and doing nothing while your country, your women, your culture and your future are raped is not acceptable either.
Frankly, I am not encouraging genocide or cruelty but there are a number of reasonable things that can and should be done.
I could list them all, but a far simpler way to communicate the options are to see what Israel has done, and will do, to its own illegals.
This we should do too.
Anon.
Corrigendum: "...options, is to see what Israel has...."
Anon.
This is a common sort of anti-Semitic meme and is completely untrue. The (not so) hidden implication is that you Joos know what is good for your own people but prescribe something else (a healthy dose of black and brown people) upon us poor goyim as revenge for the Holocaust or something. First of all, this implies that the Joos of the diaspora (e.g. David Axelrod & co.) are somehow the same as the Joos of Israel and the Israeli government - this is patently untrue. White Jewish Americal liberals are not Likudniks and are often quite opposed to Likud policies. 2ndly this assumes that Israel will really do "the right thing" with its illegals, i.e. expel them without further ado. The anti-Semites have seen a few "racist" signs carried by Jews at rallies and this has gladdened their hearts - aha you Joos are all hypocrites. The reality is that Israel has plenty of its own bleeding hearts liberals - the average Ha-arertz editorial writer would be comfortable in the NY Times newsroom and vice versa. One Israel yokel carrying an ignorant sign telling the darkies to get out does not a majority or a national policy make. You can be sure that any deportations will be endlessly appealed thru the court system, blah, blah blah the same as it would be if Tel Aviv was Los Angeles.
K
"Hypocrites" is your word, not mine.
I am, curiously, in agreement with you that the liberal Jews in America are not the same sort of people as the Jews in Israel (otherwise more of them would be in Israel).
The liberal press in Israel is really unrepresentative of the generality of Israeli citizens, who are very conscious of their vulnerability, and very conscious of the need to preserve their racial identity. I go there quite often, and I like to talk to all sorts of people, and they like to talk to me. Honestly and frankly (which is a relief).
Mark my words, the dangerous component of the illegals will be removed. It will be done in a relatively humane way, and in an intelligent way, but it will be done. A less damaging, non-dangerous group of illegals may be dealt with in a different way,as a distraction to the "International Community", but the Africans in particular will be out.
The sooner it is done, the less long-term damage there will be to Israel's international image.
They are right to do it.
If you think this is an anti-Semitic set of sentiments, you are entitled to be wrong. It is realpolitic.
It is true that this will cause some embarrassment in liberal Jews, the few in Israel, and more in the West; and it will represent a moral dilemma for some of them at least. Perhaps it will cause some of them to even to re-think their instinctual support for immigrants into the USA and Europe. But you know what? The seriousness of the situation in Southern California has already caused a rightward shift amongst a lot of the Jewish Americans I know, and in Europe, the full horror of the florid anti-Semitism exhibited by third world immigrants is already causing an exodus of Jews from France, the UK, Sweden, etc.
In South Africa, a lot of Jews (in fact about 100 000) have left and we are the poorer for it; they left not because of apartheid but because they knew apartheid, for all its injustice, at least offered them some personal physical safety. Most of these ex-South African emigrants are no longer reflexively liberal, and let me assure you, some of them never were.
Times have changed. It's time for the caricatures to disappear, or at least to catch up.
Anon.
They say that a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged.
I'm certainly not accusing you of anti-Semitism but your view is shared in part (for much less nuanced and intelligent reasons) by some who are.
I hope that you are right and that Israel will do what is necessary but I am not entirely hopeful. Just as in the US Israeli society is very divided and though the common people have common sense, some of the commanding heights (academia, the legal system, the press) are populated by liberal idiots.
I
Well, let's see what happens.
I think the Israeli leadership is unique in the West, in that it actually believes in the long term survival of its own people, mirabile dictu.
What follows is just a matter of logic, modulated by pragmatics.
Anon.
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