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Where is Myra?
Nursemyra is vacationing in a windmill in Portugal.
Is this your favorite child? You don't seem to post photos of the others.
A shayne maydl. May she find a nice Jewish husband and give you many grandchildren.K
May she find a nice Jewish husband and give you many grandchildren.K,In a previous comment thread, you were critical of Hungarian insistence on ethnic purity. Why do you insist on purity here?
Insisting and wishing are two different things. We are short 6 million Jews and need to catch up. When I see such a lovely Jewish girl (or my own daughter) I think of all the Jewish girls consumed in the fires of Auschwitz. I visited the archives at Radom and found the birth certificates of my aunts, who were no much older than J's daughter when they were gassed at Treblinka. Their birth records are literally the only evidence that they ever even existed. I don't think non-Jewish Europeans have the same frame of reference - of being an endangered species hunted to the brink of extinction.K
Did your relatives live in or near Radom, K? One branch of my family also came from arund there. I wouldn't be surprised if we were 23andMe "cousins," even though I doubt we would ever be able to document a genealogical relationship.
K, it may (or may not) surprise you, but non-Jewish whites, at least those who are far-sighted, are increasingly affected by a sense of pending demographic doom.We understand how you feel, and if we ask anything at all of you, it is some mutual comprehension.While nothing like the percentage of our various communities was exterminated, compared with the Holocaust (circa 33% of world Jewry??), it is worth reflecting on the sheer numbers of goyim slaughtered in the 1st and 2nd world wars, the uncomfortably large numbers which continue to be aborted, the disinclination of "modern" women to replace white European populations ( a concern of yours as well, I appreciate), and the effective loss of territory to retreat, defeatism and mass immigration. This is not, or should not be, an either-or situation. We both have very good reason to be extremely concerned.Anon.
I do agree with Anon and I can and do emphatise with White Europeans's feelings. Demographic changes are slow and silent, and only a few are aware of its dramatic effects. South African whites have lost their country because they didnt protect in time their majority (yes, there was a time when whites were majority in South Africa), and we are witnessing how the USA has passed the tipping point. After all, we Ashkenazi Jews are about 50% mixed European stock, although that never helped us.
After all, we Ashkenazi Jews are about 50% mixed European stock, although that never helped us.Mostly southern European, J, and of ancient (Hellenistic and Roman) non-genealogically traceable derivation. So it's no surprise that it didn't "help" us live among Germans, Slavs and Hungarians. However, for all we know, that admixture could have been the first step in elevating Ashkenazi IQ. And it is part of who we are.
I disagree. I think the closest "European" relatives are North Italians. Anyway, soon it will be studied to ten decimal points.
Thanks, K. בקרוב אצלך
North Italians are still southern Europeans. The Tuscan population that shows up so often in the data sets is at least partially descended from Etrucans who migrated from Anatolia. There is genetic evidence for this. Also, there are large geographic gaps in the populations sampled. The other clue is that Ashkenazim are not genetically close to northern European populations such as Germans and Slavs.
Another point, in Dienkes' Dodecad project ADMIXTURE runs, Ashkenazim have only low levels of the "Northern European" component. The highest levels of that component are found in northeast Europeans, and northwest Europeans usually demonstrate that component in the 40-50% range. Southern Europeans have somewhat less, although still more of it than any population in the Middle East proper. The Ashkenazi ADMIXTURE profile looks like an originally Levantine population that has a significantly elevated "Mediterranean" component, a mildly elevated "Northern European" component and a somewhat reduced "southwest Asian" in comparison to modern Levantine populations. That best fits admixture with southern Europeans rather than northern Europeans.
Yes, my father's family was from Przytyk, which is a shtetl just up the road from Radom (though a world away - Radom was a decent sized city of some sophistication, Przytyk was a small town). Przytyk's 1st and last appearance in world history was a "pogrom" in 1936. 2 Jews were killed in the pogrom (and 1 Pole) and the subsequent trials, etc. received worldwide coverage (at least in the Jewish press). It was sort of a Trayvon Martin cause celebre for a little while. Of course the events of 1939 soon overshadowed everything. In 1936, the death of a Jewish couple was still a remarkable thing. Stalin said that the death of a man is a tragedy but the death of millions is a statistic.One always wonders (at least I do) whether the Jews of Przytyk should have seen the pogrom as a warning of things to come and gotten the hell out. But the anti-Semitic rabble (before the Germans came) were considered somewhat marginal (the way Jobbik is today) and people saw no reason to abandon everything and flee just because some hooligans turned over some tables in the market square. The Jews (who were a majority of the population in town) gave as good as they got and did not see themselves as overmatched (until the Germans showed up and by then it was too late).K
I certainly do empathize with your concerns, Anon and while some may not, I would venture to include myself in the category of "white people" - there are some redhead genes in our family and though our hair is more of a dark brown than carrot red, we inherited the redhead gene for lack of skin pigmentation - we are as pale as fish and burn (and freckle) rather than tan.The 1/3 statistic is deceptive. In Poland, 90% of the 3 million plus Jewish population was killed. 9 out of 10 murdered. In Lithuania, even higher. In Poland and Lithuania today, Jews are as rare as hen's teeth.K
K, The Holocaust was decided and planned in a secret meeting at Wansee. There is no way that the chicken merchants of a remote village in Poland could have realized what was about to happen. They were worried about the thieves in the market and the corrupt greedy Polish policeman, not Eichman who was totally unknown. It was the Jewish leadership in Germany that failed to see the coming and call the alert. The Hungarian Vaad Hatzalah had total information yet failed to organize mass flight or any kind of defense. Some say they sold out the community. At least, POlish Jews fought back. Lets focus on the future and not the wars lost.
I would also distinguish the demographic situation of Jews from whites in that the Holocaust was murder but the events you describe - the world wars, lack of fertility, etc. are in effect suicide. Of course, assimilated Jews have their own demographic crisis now and a much more acute one - between intermarriage and low birth rate, non-Orthodox Jews will disappear in a few generations.K
I just read an account (and have read countless similar stories) of a boy who escaped from the Belzec extermination camp and tried to warn the Jews of Zamosc (a few kilometers up the road) what was going on there and where they would be taken if they were rounded up by the Germans. He was disbelieved and his warning was dismissed. Human death factories were a new and previously unknown innovation of the Germans and people could not grasp that such things existed. Even today there are those who remain in denial.K
"Hungarian Vaad Hatzalah had total information yet failed to organize mass flight or any kind of defense. Some say they sold out the community."The Jewish leadership everywhere behaved in an utterly detestable and ineffectual manner, more concerned with saving their own asses (and even in that they were unsuccessful ultimately) than in their own people. Their only success was in making the Nazi's job easier. The Jewish leadership structure in E. Europe was never robust as they had no governmental authority and Jews, with their high intelligence, make lousy followers anyway (2 Jews - 3 opinions, goes the joke) but in the crisis the leadership went from worthless to less than worthless. When giants were needed, we had moral midgets.Even in the US, where they were in no physical danger, selfishness abounded. Frankfurter (who as a Supreme Court Justice had an untouchable job for life) would not lift a finger to help because he did not want to be seen as "too Jewish" by his drinking buddy Roosevelt. The Zionists in Palestine did little to help either.K
Zionism carries a tremendous load of shame and regret for its ineffectiveness during the Holocaust. The Naturey Karta people has accused the Zionist leadership of refusing to save religious people and helping only "pioneer human material" of young peasants. It is all true, the Zionist leadership was blind and cruel like everybody else. Then there was the fight between Socialists and Revisionists, in the middle of Warshaw uprising. We had no leadership with political experience. Now we are starting to have good leadership in the USA, in Russia and in Israel. I am optimist, we have learned something.
K,It looks like Przytyk is southeast of Radom. One branch of my family came from a small town north and west of Radom but which I believe was still in its administrative district. It looks to be about 100 to 125 miles from your father's town. Fortunately, most of them (apparently not all) emigrated in the early 20th century.
I would agree that there is a seminal difference between the Jewish holocaust and the demographic collapse of the white peoples, and I would also agree with the characterization of the former as murder and the latter as suicide.However, the net effect is at least in one key respect the same, ie a collapse in the population, and an edging closer to extintion. In the case of an initially smaller population, such as the Jews, the concern about extinction has to be raised pretty quickly, since there is not much of a demographic cushion to fall back on.However, for those who realize that compound interest also works backwards, even a large population can be pushed to the edge and indeed over the edge, as we have seen with numerous species in living memory (eg carrier pidgeons, which used to "blacken the sky", the Newfoundland cod fishery, etc). And your people have a real advantage in this game of survival, which is that your own leaders are actually committed to the survival of the Jewish people. Leaders in the West seem committed to the wholesale extinction of their own white race; they deny it exists, they flood the West with hyper-fecund third worlders who parasitize the white taxpayers, they enable abortion, they discourage childbirth, they promote the feminist agenda, they do everything in their power to undermine the traditional family, they persecute people who complain,they distract people with porn, alcohol and leftist celebrity crap, they push outgroup altruism, they pump our young people full of guilt and self-hatred,and so on and on, as is now drearily familiar. This is the reason we are now so deeply concerned. Anon.
Secular Jewish leadership (which in some cases overlaps with leadership of the society at large) suffers (anti-Semites say drives) the exact same failures that you site. The ultra-religious do not share this agenda and will (as a result of demographics) become an increasingly large % of Jews, but the same can be said of white society as well - this is known as the "Roe effect" - all those aborted fetuses belonging to families sympathetic to abortion (and the whole package of liberal values that goes with it) cannot vote. The one thing that American Jews have been able to escape so far has been the "Negrification" of the proletariat (basically because American Jews don't have a proletariat). In the past, lower class whites aspired to middle class values but increasingly they see the black underclass as their role model, not only in trivial ways (taste in music, clothing) but also in matters of lifestyle such as bearing children out of wedlock.Having just seen Western Ukraine which was a better organized and more prosperous place in 1912 than it is in 2012, J's observation that progress is not linear is clearly correct and I'm afraid we won't see much progress in the next few decades, unfortunately. Just saw an article on air traffic in Japan which is considerably (maybe 30%) lower today than it was in 2000. JAL has retired all its jumbo jets in favor of smaller ones. Things can go backward as well as forward.K
I think we're sort of max'd out in productivity, until the next big technological revolution. The only things that are going to make a big difference, as far as I can see, are cheaper energy, and medical methods to substantially raise IQ.Both are at least conceivable.Anon.
The ultra-religious do not share this agenda and will (as a result of demographics) become an increasingly large % of Jews...Things can go backward as well as forward.K,An increase in the ultra-orthodox population share among Jews is a big step backward. They may not share the suicidal agenda of the secular Jewish Left, but they do not foster education in secular subjects and, worse, propagate all sorts of mystical nonsense. A surge in the secular , patriotic Jewish Right would have been far preferable, but that group always seems to be anemic among Jews. Just wait and the host of problems that ultra-Orthodox population ascendancy brings will reveal themselves. You should hope that Israel doesn't have to relive the lesson of the Zealots of old.
Anon,As J (I think) or K has pointed out, today's secular Jews are only a handful of generations away from shtetle-dwellers with side locks. Today's ultra-orthodox are tomorrow's reform or secular Jews.
Fred,That assumes that the future plays out like the past, which I do not think is entirely warranted. In the 18th and 19th century, there was intense outward pressure on Jews in Europe and America to modernize. Now, there aren't many Jews in Europe, and there isn't much pressure on the ultra-Orthodox to modernize in America or Israel. Who knows if such pressure will arise again. The ultra-Orthodox also use limited secular education and early marriage to make it nearly impossible for members of the flock to leave. You and J (and B, wherever he is) are much too optimistic.
Things change. Generations change. For the time, it is good the religious Jews are making up for the millions assessinated. One hundred years from now, I shall make the re-assessment.
No one who supports what is going on will be around in 100 years to assume responsibility for the consequences if they are wrong, J. The idea that the religious births are needed to make up numbers for the murdered Holocaust victims is ludicrous. It's not as if there's a welfare funding pyramid that depends on Jewish numbers being over a certain threshold. And unless you believe in transmigration of souls (and what is the evidence for the existence of souls?), there's not a chance those children actually are the murdered Holocaust victims.
You are raising straw man arguments - no one said that the little Orthodox children are literally the reincarnation of the murdered souls. But the fact remains that the Jews are at least six million short of where they would be had this horrendous crime not occurred. As I said before, when I see the punim (face) of a beautiful, brilliant Yiddishe maydl like J's daughter (or my own) I cannot help but be reminded of all those other Jewish girls that Mengele consigned to execution with a flick of his wrist.K
I agree with K. To denounce Jewish fecundity less than a century after a genocide...it's wrong.(Ideology, cultural influence, political power? You can go to town on those.)
"Now, there aren't many Jews in Europe, and there isn't much pressure on the ultra-Orthodox to modernize in America or Israel."There may not be pressure, but there's plenty of temptation: delicious bacon, beautiful shiksas and secular Jews, cheeseburgers, reggae, pot, etc.
Reggae and pot are not treyf. Ever hear of Matisyahu?K
Matisyahu is no longer ultra-Orthodox. At least one former crazy has seen the light.
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